1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 22nd February 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Audio recording option set to be introduced for all PIP assessments, says DWP Feb 2021

Discussion in 'Work, Finances and Disability Insurance' started by Sly Saint, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,704
    Likes Received:
    47,033
    Location:
    UK
    full article (audio version also available)
    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.c...-introduced-for-all-pip-assessments-says-dwp/
     
    JohnM, yME, Kitty and 12 others like this.
  2. MEMarge

    MEMarge Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,841
    Likes Received:
    10,915
    This is such good news.
     
    Kitty, lunarainbows, Wits_End and 5 others like this.
  3. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    34,083
    Location:
    UK
    Over the last several years I am several several thousands of pounds worse off because I trusted an ATOS assessor to assess me fairly, and importantly not to make unfounded assumptions, know what she was doing, and to not tell barefaced lies - which I couldn't dispute as I had no evidence to do so, only my word, which apparently wasn't even worth considering if it was at variance from the pack of lies the assessor had submitted.

    So, yes, good news, just have to see what happens in practice.
     
    MEMarge, yME, Kitty and 10 others like this.
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    30,653
    Likes Received:
    146,016
    Location:
    UK
    This concerns me. I didn't know until it was too late that an assessor might tell lied about me and twist what I said. It should be mandatory that all assessments are recorded.
     
    MEMarge, yME, Kitty and 10 others like this.
  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,523
    Likes Received:
    44,168
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Good point about what happens in practice @Wonko i asked in advance for my ESA assessment in 2018 to be recorded but when I arrived for the appointment the equipment didn’t work and they didn’t have a spare.....
     
    MEMarge, yME, Kitty and 8 others like this.
  6. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,388
    Likes Received:
    48,514
    I suspect that happens a lot. Certainly a lot of people seem to say it's happened to them.

    As a system this is wide open to abuse. If some assessors are prepared to misrepresent or lie about claimants then what's to stop those same assessors lying by claiming the equipment isn't working?

    If I'm not mistaken the dual recording systems are similar to those used by the police. They don't seem to have the same degree of difficulty with faulty recording equipment though, do they?

    This messing about with vulnerable people needs to stop. It should be fairly simple it keep a log of recording devices.

    Stick an ID sticker on it that linked to a record of the make, model and serial number & location of device. A history of cleaning, maintenance & repair and who carried the work out should be recorded. Along with reports of equipment failure, what actual fault was found, who reported it, what was done to fix it and how long it took to get it fixed. Exactly like Atos, Capita and the DWP itself have probably already done for decades with the own IT kit.

    I'd be very surprised if that wasn't already being done because maintenance & repair company have service level agreements that often require this type of logging so they can prove they have operated within their agreed contract. This is standard practise in offices throughout the land and has been for decades.
     
    yME, Kitty, Wits_End and 7 others like this.
  7. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    3,924
    it is about time they where dragged into this century really tape cassettes and disc . when phones and other digital devices can make multiple files and share them via email .
     
  8. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    34,083
    Location:
    UK
    I'd prefer they were dragged into another century than this one myself.

    The 12th century would probably be good, they should fit right in.
     
  9. Wits_End

    Wits_End Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    3,505
    Location:
    UK London
    It's about "£$%$"£^"£& time.

    We got the ESA one recorded, but of course not PIP - that wasn't allowed. So we had no evidence to prove what a selective work of fiction the "healthcare professional"'s report was. There were comments in there which totally misrepresented my caree's walking ability - and we were never able to correct them to an accurate version even with an appeal. It's now too late for change as she's over pensionable age, which means her low-rate mobility payment can never be improved on. The whole system stinks.
     
    JemPD, MEMarge, alktipping and 6 others like this.
  10. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,945
    Likes Received:
    24,357
    Absolutely. All medico-legal assessments, in all circumstances.

    The threat of being caught out is the only way to keep assessors even vaguely honest.
     
    JemPD, MEMarge, alktipping and 5 others like this.
  11. Kitty

    Kitty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    12,165
    Even the small garage that MoTs my car records all the phone calls. It really, really isn't difficult.

    I can see why they would argue that it needs to be done by the contractor so there can be no claim that recordings have been edited, but it's as easy to test the recording levels on a mobile phone as it is on a dual tape machine.

    There are also simple strategies to get around any issues about editing, such as having a clock ticking at a low but audible level, which gives – for instance – a double tick every half minute and a triple one every minute. Any theatre sound engineer on the planet could create such a track quickly and cheaply, and streaming or playing it during an assessment would enable claimants to use their own recording devices if the assessor's developed one of the mysterious faults that seem so ubiquitous. It might not be acceptable for interviewing murder suspects, but it's perfectly adequate for benefit claimants.
     
    MEMarge, alktipping, Simbindi and 3 others like this.
  12. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    34,083
    Location:
    UK
    Only if you consider claiming benefits to be a less serious crime than murder.
     
    MEMarge, alktipping, yME and 6 others like this.
  13. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,388
    Likes Received:
    48,514
    Absolutely & with personal consequences for them if they lie or misrepresent plus consequences for their employer too.

    A claimant caught lying will face the consequences so why shouldn't there be consequences for an assessor?
     
    JemPD, MEMarge, Sean and 7 others like this.
  14. Kitty

    Kitty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    12,165
    That's the whole problem with outsourcing, isn't it. Companies receive financial incentives to do as many assessments as possible, and are pressured to engineer negative outcomes for as many claimants as possible. So if an assessor lies and gets away with it, they're more likely to be promoted for their success than censured as a liar.
     
    Wits_End, JemPD, MEMarge and 6 others like this.
  15. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,388
    Likes Received:
    48,514
    Yes, but only outsourcing in certain sectors it would seem.

    I have worked for an outsourcing company in a completely unrelated field. Your performance as an employee is closely monitored, even as someone who had a very technical role your ability to build a rapport and a relationship of trust with a client was extremely important.

    Lying to or about a client would have consequences, it would certainly go on your record in appraisals and might even trigger disciplinary action.

    Occasionally, I have been asked to do something at work which wouldn't be legal. However, if I got found out I'd probably get fired and have destroyed my own career plus there could be implications for my employer.

    You were assessed by your employer who discussed your performance with your clients. Very high levels of personal accountability.

    It can be done if there is the will to do it. If the primary focus is on doing the job right.
     
    Wits_End, JemPD, Sean and 3 others like this.
  16. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    21,440
    Location:
    UK
    About flaming time! The existing system is a disgrace.
     
    MEMarge, Sean, alktipping and 5 others like this.
  17. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    34,083
    Location:
    UK
    Nevertheless the system is working as intended or else why have the various exposes been ignored, why are so few 'suicides' related to benefits even acknowledged let alone investigated, let alone have any action taken to change things.

    Why is the system deliberately set up to only process aspects of disability/illness in total isolation from the effects they, combined with other aspects of health issues in the same person, cause. In short why are they deliberately choosing to not assess the disability/health of the people they are supposed to be assessing the health and disability of.

    The system is working as it was designed to, other than, from a certain perspective, far too many people get benefits on the basis of being disabled.

    Or else why do they keep making the system more unfair in a seemly deliberate attempt to further restrict numbers of successful claimants..
     
    JemPD, Sean, alktipping and 2 others like this.
  18. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,388
    Likes Received:
    48,514
    Given the paltry amounts disability benefits payout I doubt it's cost saving.

    I would really love to see the figures. Exactly how much does each ESA & PIP assessment cost? Especially, if you add on the cost of tribunals. Was it really cheaper to outsource it?

    Why is it so difficult to find out what benefits you are actually eligible to apply for? Where is the proof that the default "computer says no" position saves money?

    I don't know how accurate it is but I vaguely recall that an estimated 0.1% of the total payout by the benefit system was paid out in fraudulent claims. That includes housing benefits, pensions and so on. So the amount of fraudulently claimed via ESA & PIP would be substantially less.

    Claimants are on such low incomes anyway, it's hardly as though they'll be salting an extra cash away under their mattresses. No, the chances are they'll be spending it on things that will.improve their overall health and quality of life such as better food, maybe more heating, possibly things that might reduce their use of the health service. I'm sure many would use it to fund some care and so aid employment in their local communities.
     
    MEMarge, Sean, alktipping and 3 others like this.
  19. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,523
    Likes Received:
    44,168
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Given they lose such a high percentage of tribunals so have to pay the benefits and the cost of taking the case to tribunal, the approach of taking so many cases as far as tribunal can only be cost effective if seen in terms of how many people it deters from claiming or deters from fighting cases through to tribunal.
     
    Wits_End, MEMarge, Sean and 6 others like this.
  20. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    9,871
    Location:
    Somerset, England
    The HCPs are aessssed by their supervisor (and employer). They get disciplined if they make too many awards to claimants. If they allow more awards than 'the average', all their reports are reviewed and outcomes adjusted.
     

Share This Page