1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 18th January 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Copaxone as a treatment for me/cfs?!

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Jaybee00, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    leokitten, roller*, Mattie and 8 others like this.
  2. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    That is insanely interesting
    I had a quick glance at the wikipedia article on it but it does not explain how it works.

    But its available as a generic which is very good news if it works on ME, no one wants to pay 6 figures a year for a drug.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,175
    Likes Received:
    85,022
    I cannot make any scientific sense of any of the discussion about this so far. I am not sure I can make any sense of the use of copaxone in MS, and the trials are all said to be at 'high risk of bias'. Ismay be of note that Cochrane gave it a positive review!
     
  4. andypants

    andypants Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    11,591
    Location:
    Norway
    MEMarge and Squeezy like this.
  5. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,175
    Likes Received:
    85,022
    Things may have moved on but the problem with the old theory that myelin basic protein was the autoantigen in MS is that it is also present in all peripheral nerve myelin and the peripheral nerves are untouched in MS. I have never registered any announcement that an autoimmune response to MBP has actually been established in MS. If it had presumably it would form the basis of a specific diagnostic test - which at present I don't think we have for MS.
     
    MEMarge, rvallee, Hutan and 6 others like this.
  6. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    Dammit, i read that page and somehow missed this completely. My cognitive functioning is obviously worse then i thought :eek::cry: :dead: :emoji_face_palm:
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  7. andypants

    andypants Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,293
    Likes Received:
    11,591
    Location:
    Norway
    @Alvin to be fair Wikipedia is not especially ME-friendly!
     
    adambeyoncelowe and Squeezy like this.
  8. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    It is not but this really worries me, it means i am losing my perspicacity far more then i realized :emoji_face_palm:
     
  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    Having been to an out of town doctor my cognitive functioning is gone out the window and i'm in the loopy stage and this drug/thread came to mind randomly.

    If its a combination of 4 amino acids can we just eat all 4 isolated and get the same effect?
     
    Inara, Squeezy and andypants like this.
  10. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Location:
    United States
    No, the drug is 40-60ish (based on rough calculations) amino acid peptides given by injection.

    Even if you swallowed the drug you would just digest it into the component amino acids and have no way of resynthesizing it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
    MEMarge, Inara, Squeezy and 1 other person like this.
  11. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    Can you explain this in more detail?
     
  12. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Location:
    United States
    Sure. A peptide is a chain of amino acids bonded together to make one molecule. (A polypeptide is a very long chain of amino acids. Proteins are made up of one or more polypeptides.)

    Copaxone contains different peptides composed of the specified four amino acids. The purported biological activity of Copaxone results from the structure of the peptide molecules as a whole, not the biological properties of the component free amino acids.

    We ingest the four amino acids in this drug from digesting food protein every day. However, to get the biological activity of the drug from food/supplements we would need to biosynthesize it from the free amino acids, which out bodies don't.
     
    MEMarge, rvallee, Susan K and 4 others like this.
  13. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,309
    Likes Received:
    16,121
    So what peptide is this drug?
     
  14. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    6,156
    Location:
    United States
    MEMarge, rvallee, Alvin and 1 other person like this.
  15. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    The Evolving Mechanisms of Action of Glatiramer Acetate

    Cold Spring Harb Perspect Med. 2018 Feb 12. pii: a029249. doi: 10.1101/cshperspect.a029249. [Epub ahead of print]
    The Evolving Mechanisms of Action of Glatiramer Acetate.
    Prod'homme T1, Zamvil SS2.
    Author information
    Abstract
    Glatiramer acetate (GA) is a synthetic amino acid copolymer that is approved for treatment of relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis (RRMS) and clinically isolated syndrome (CIS). GA reduces multiple sclerosis (MS) disease activity and has shown comparable efficacy with high-dose interferon-β. The mechanism of action (MOA) of GA has long been an enigma. Originally, it was recognized that GA treatment promoted expansion of GA-reactive T-helper 2 and regulatory T cells, and induced the release of neurotrophic factors. However, GA treatment influences both innate and adaptive immune compartments, and it is now recognized that antigen-presenting cells (APCs) are the initial cellular targets for GA. The anti-inflammatory (M2) APCs induced following treatment with GA are responsible for the induction of anti-inflammatory T cells that contribute to its therapeutic benefit. Here, we review studies that have shaped our current understanding of the MOA of GA.

    https://neuroimmunol.ucsf.edu/sites...t Med-2018-Prod'homme-cshperspect.a029249.pdf


     
    MEMarge likes this.
  16. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    MEMarge and shak8 like this.
  17. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    https://parkinsonsnewstoday.com/2019/06/25/copaxone-benefits-parkinsons-disease-study/

    MS Medicine Copaxone May Have Benefits in Parkinson’s Disease, Mouse Study Finds

     
    MEMarge, Amw66, rvallee and 2 others like this.
  18. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    674
    Likes Received:
    2,456
    Check out Ron Davis's talk at the recent OMF Harvard Symposium [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLl4AfLZNZEQPNU0GYk3crnEnbQu_cYvO5]. Copaxone was identifies as a candidate treatment in ME as a woman, incorrectly diagnosed with MS, was given capaxone and it helped - she was subsequently diagnosed with ME i.e. not MS. Unfortunately she developed an immune response to Copaxone - as Ron explains Copaxone is a protein so that can happen.

    The above case (incorrect diagnosis with MS) highlights a further problem with diagnosis --. The nanoneedle and a bunch of other stuff (e.g. intracellular phenylalanine - Morten/Tomas & others) could resolve that diagnosis issue - outside the scope of this thread.

    ME Action are lobbying for funding for the development of a diagnostic test and treatments https://www.meaction.net/…/announcing-millionsmissing-2019…/
     
    MEMarge and sb4 like this.
  19. Perrier

    Perrier Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    2,176
    According to many MS folks, this drug is hard to tolerate and has many side effects. As ME patients are so reactive, how would they be able to even take this drug. And there are MS doctors warning their patients not to take this drug. None of this is scientific, just grape vine stuff...but still
     
    Alton, ukxmrv, MEMarge and 1 other person like this.
  20. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2,631
    @Perrier

    Copaxone is considered the safest of the older MS drugs. See here https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ms-drugs-ratings-070214#2

    Some people get allergic reactions. But according to this paper https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14740338.2017.1274728?journalCode=ieds20 no deaths have been reported from Copaxone treatment.

    Also, I don't think it is realistic to expect that whatever treatment emerges for MECFS in the next 20 years or so will be benign with no side effects. It will likely be just as horrible as the existing DMT's for other chronic diseases such as MS and RA.
     
    wastwater, andypants, ukxmrv and 2 others like this.

Share This Page