1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 18th March 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Eating improves exertion induced fatigue and symptoms of orthostatic intolerance

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional malaise and fatigue' started by Hoopoe, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,234
    Recently, I walked for longer than usual. While I was still out of the house, I gradually became more symptomatic: weaker, fatigued, dizzy, etc. After eating a slice of pizza, these symptoms improved significantly despite still being on my feet and walking. I think that is an important observation that points to a problem with energy metabolism.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    51,841
    Location:
    UK
    Interesting. How quickly did you feel the effect. It would take a while for the food to be digested.
     
    MeSci, dangermouse, Yessica and 3 others like this.
  3. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,234
    I think I noticed within two minutes that symptoms were beginning to improve.
     
    merylg, dangermouse, Yessica and 3 others like this.
  4. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,488
    Location:
    Belgium
    I tend to have more energy after a meal while most healthy people seem to experience the opposite and feel a bit fatigued. Not really a dramatic effect, but perhaps this is similar to what you mean Strategist?
     
  5. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,197
    sounds more like the natural patterns of m e . when I am walking it can start out hard then ease of for a short period then back to wtf am I doing . this bloody disease likes to mess with you so it is understandable why there is so much conflicting information around this am I feeling better because I did something or is it just one of those small short lasting upturns in the symptom pattern or as often as not no discernible pattern .
     
    coFi94, merylg, MeSci and 4 others like this.
  6. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,903
    I find eating (whether i'm hungry or not) improves all my symptoms a little bit within about 5-10mins. it's short lived (lasts 15-30mins) but is surprisingly predictable, especially if I eat sugar.
    I've always suspected it of being a psychological/placebo thing for me, since I find food comforting but at the same time my symptoms do not get worse when I need comfort or am feeling low, so maybe not who knows.
    The more I eat the better I feel - up to a point, obviously feeling over full is uncomfortable - but what I mean is that for example a 2 slice sandwich has more of an effect than a one slice one.
     
    merylg, pteropus, alktipping and 5 others like this.
  7. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,204
    I'm wondering if it was the high sodium content from the pizza? I have recently started electrolytes drinks with BCCA after my power walks and finding improvements so far. I can be upright for longer periods.
     
    merylg, alktipping, ChloeC and 5 others like this.
  8. AllenJB

    AllenJB Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    42
    I'm more sensitive to low glucose. A glucose meal definitely will raise my energy. ME inhibits mitochondria so this makes sense.
     
    merylg, alktipping, ChloeC and 4 others like this.
  9. JES

    JES Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    209
    Eating helps me with maintaining blood sugar during exertion, but anything too much worsens the dysautonomia (presumably from blood going to digestion). Alcohol provides me the best quick improvement and as a bonus improves OI symptoms, temporarily only, of course.
     
    alktipping, ChloeC, MeSci and 2 others like this.
  10. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,601
    Location:
    UK
    You may want to edit the title of your thread. It currently sounds like the thread is about "eating rapidly". :)
     
    alktipping, ChloeC, Arnie Pye and 2 others like this.
  11. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,601
    Location:
    UK
    Sounds like a blood sugar drop being rectified by food?
     
    alktipping, ChloeC, Chezboo and 2 others like this.
  12. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    UK
    As far as I know 2 minutes is not time enough to allow useful digestion, apart with some very rapidly digested sugars (dextrose or something similar?).

    Conventional wisdom suggests 20 minutes is needed after eating to assess if you are still hungry, so presumably for normal food thats how long it takes for the body to signal the brain it's had enough to get on with processing for the moment.

    I would suspect it's the simple act of eating that's responsible.

    I would suggest further research, using cake, chocolate, ice cream etc. - using something you really detest as a control.
     
  13. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,601
    Location:
    UK
    I have been wondering whether the act of eating (e.g. The taste of food in your mouth) stimulates something?
     
    alktipping, ChloeC, sb4 and 1 other person like this.
  14. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,601
    Location:
    UK
    What toppings were on the pizza?
     
    alktipping and Hoopoe like this.
  15. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    UK
    It does, at least I have seen stuff that says it does for sweet stuff

    ETA - and it seems possible it could also cause a release of dopamine (or something of that nature) - as an encouragement to persuade those who've never eaten before that it's a desirable activity from a biological perspective.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  16. Wits_End

    Wits_End Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,322
    Location:
    UK London
    I suspect. I find this too (without having ME), but the response time is far too quick for it to be real. Eating something sweet in my case can ward off a migraine-like headache, feeling sick, and various other things.
     
    alktipping likes this.
  17. Ravn

    Ravn Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,042
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    A further control could be sugar-free chewing gum to test if it's the action of eating, i.e. chewing and salivating, that has an effect. You sometimes see cricketers chewing gum on the field to settle the nerves so there could be some neurotransmitter thing going on there.
     
  18. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,234
    It could be a signalling thing. Something like a metabolic switch from "starvation" to "abundant energy".

    Conventional wisdom can also be wrong. I'm not strongly convinced that it is wrong but it's a possibility that has to be considered.

    I understand that some carbs are digested and absorbed in the mouth already and could in theory very quickly be reaching the brain.
     
    alktipping, ChloeC and Sarah94 like this.
  19. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,234
    That doesn't fit with the pattern of the response. Salt water drinks don't have such a noticable effect and don't pull me out of a symptomatic state. I'm pretty sure there's more salt in many of these drinks that I've consumed than the entire pizza.
     
    alktipping and Sarah94 like this.
  20. Ryan31337

    Ryan31337 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    359
    Something else worth considering might be if eating is changing your breathing patterns. Would likely have some impact if you have OI and tend to breathe excessively, as many of us do without realising it. That could certainly bring about a rapid improvement in symptoms like dizziness.
     
    alktipping, JemPD and sb4 like this.

Share This Page