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Tymes Trust - No reported harassment of staff at Bristol University

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Liv aka Mrs Sowester, Oct 29, 2017.

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  1. Liv aka Mrs Sowester

    Liv aka Mrs Sowester Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Liv aka Mrs Sowester, Oct 29, 2017
    #1
    Esperanza, Inara, Simone and 39 others like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Oh, what a surprise.

    Read more in http://www.tymestrust.org/pdfs/noharassmentbristol.pdf
     
    Andy, Oct 29, 2017
    #2
    Esperanza, Inara, Simone and 17 others like this.
  3. Joel

    Joel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Anyone surprised?
     
    Joel, Oct 29, 2017
    #3
    Simone, ladycatlover, Skippa and 10 others like this.
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Not surprised at all.

    And she can't pretend she has been a brave little soldier and taken the harassment on the chin without informing her university, because she went on in her recent talk about how supportive Bristol Uni had been through all her harassment troubles.

    Edited to remove slightly inflammatory comment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
    Trish, Oct 29, 2017
    #4
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  5. markiemark

    markiemark Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Disrupting ME/CFS and now the fabric of reality too? What can't this person do?! Amazing.

    "Freedom of Information (FOI) requests were listed as the most damaging type of ‘harassment’." :rofl::rofl: surely these individuals can't take themselves seriously at this point?
     
    markiemark, Oct 29, 2017
    #5
    Inara, Simone, Atle and 22 others like this.
  6. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    Given her slide with a threatening letter came from the front page of the sunday times this is not at all surprising.

    Its so clearly a device to try to stop her work being examined in detail. Her real problem is that her work doesn't stand up to scrutiny and I think there are skeletons around ethical approval not just or her but for other staff (including senior staff) who co-authored papers.

    The question is what will Bristol university do about it.
     
    Adrian, Oct 29, 2017
    #6
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  7. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am, terrifically surprised, at the obvious restraint shown by her "victims" and their responsible adults for there not to have been any harassment, it's, erm...terrifically surprising.
     
    Wonko, Oct 29, 2017
    #7
    Inara, ladycatlover, sea and 13 others like this.
  8. Liv aka Mrs Sowester

    Liv aka Mrs Sowester Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But is she aware of her own behaviour? I think she's believing her own lies.
    If she carries on the way she's going they will sideline her and distance themselves as quickly and quietly as possible.
     
    Liv aka Mrs Sowester, Oct 29, 2017
    #8
    Inara, Woolie, ladycatlover and 9 others like this.
  9. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not in the least bit surprised, but it's great to have hard black and white evidence. Get the feeling another David Tuller blog might be in the offing.

    It really does reinforce the notion that these people's notion of evidence, in whatever form they may present it, is closer to fantasy than reality.
     
    Barry, Oct 29, 2017
    #9
    Esperanza, Inara, Skycloud and 16 others like this.
  10. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Heads and sand come to mind.
     
    Barry, Oct 29, 2017
    #10
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  11. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I've muttered elsewhere in dark corners, these folk operate (in my not entirely humble opinion :p) in a completely different paradigm. For them the concept of lies is alien, because they have no real concept of truth. For them it is cause and effect how they model their world; if a bit of truth has their chosen effect this time, and a bit of untruth does the trick the next ... that, I'm sure, is how they see it. I think they have real trouble fathoming why everyone else gets so upset with them.
     
    Barry, Oct 29, 2017
    #11
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  12. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure that it is that simple for them. For example the paper she did where she appears not to have ethics approval (http://www.virology.ws/2017/08/28/trial-by-error-no-ethical-review-of-crawley-school-absence-study/) had two other Bristol university professors (Prof Emond and Prof Sterne) as authors. Jonathan Sterne is again involved with the SMILE trial.

    So the issues permeate the whole department. The vice chancellor will need to step in and take serious action but I think he is more interested in getting funding/relationships with industry than good governance.
     
    Adrian, Oct 29, 2017
    #12
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  13. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I think she didn't realize people would actually look at her work in detail and ask questions. Maybe a few patients but not other academics. But then PACE was questioned and academics (in the US) spoke out. Now she is in a difficult position of having done bad work played loose with ethical approval and backed bad work (let alone her actions as a doctor). So she is fighting for her career and she has a reputation for fighting dirty.
     
    Adrian, Oct 29, 2017
    #13
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  14. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    No reported surprise at S4ME.

    Apparently Esther filled in a questionnaire in which she asked herself how harrassed she felt. She then made herself stand in a circle of BPS colleagues repeatedly affirming that they all felt very harrassed. When she filled in the same questionnaire at the end of the session it clearly showed that she felt a lot more harrassed. Can't argue with that, it's science.
     
    TiredSam, Oct 29, 2017
    #14
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  15. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Five bucks donated to OMF says they will do nothing or try to sweep it under the rug.

    That is the modus operandi of double thinkers :emoji_face_palm:
     
    Alvin, Oct 30, 2017
    #15
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  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting.

    While it certainly seems that Crawley has been spinning away on what should be considered 'harassment', I also think that there's reason for some caution on this issue.

    It would not surprise me at all if she did have a collection of unpleasant and aggressive e-mails that had been sent to her. It just needs one patient to move from being justifiably angry about Crawley's behaviour to sending off something unacceptable. It's fair for us to challenge the way complaints of 'harassment' are being used to try to undermine legitimate criticism of her work, but it's also best to try to keep focussing on the problems with her work, rather than risk getting caught up in distractions about what constitutes 'abuse', or risking coming across as 'victim-blaming'.

    Some of the discussions on-line recently have reminded me how many people will consider legitimate criticism to be 'abusive' if it's not done in the politest of tones. That's irritating to me, but tactically it's probably in our interests to do what we can to avoid putting off people we want on our side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
    Esther12, Oct 30, 2017
    #16
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  17. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does David Tuller know about this site yet?
     
    Arnie Pye, Oct 30, 2017
    #17
    ladycatlover, Skippa, Esther12 and 1 other person like this.
  18. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    [​IMG]

    I'll soon need a bigger canvas...
     
    Luther Blissett, Oct 30, 2017
    #18
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  19. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep. I think Crawley and co are almost certainly bluffing. But be careful, we don't know for a fact what evidence they do hold that they have not yet put on the table.

    Personally, I think they would have tabled it by now. But you never know.
     
    Sean, Oct 30, 2017
    #19
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  20. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    I would be surprised if she hasn't given it is very easy to get emotional and act inappropriately when you feel your child isn't getting good care. The thing that will stop that is parents of children who have ME learn to be careful of the authorities and manage them.

    I think we should be challenging the narrative that FoI and questions in parliament are harassment - they are our democratic rights and ways to keep those in positions of power or taking public money accountable. The same with complaints to professional bodies if people feel something is wrong they should be complaining otherwise issues go unnoticed.

    But I do think you are right we should avoid personal attacks and be careful about our behaviour.
     
    Adrian, Oct 30, 2017
    #20
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