Review Advocating the role of trained immunity in the pathogenesis of ME/CFS; a mini review, 2025, Humer et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by forestglip, Mar 12, 2025.

  1. forestglip

    forestglip Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Advocating the role of trained immunity in the pathogenesis of ME/CFS; a mini review

    Bart Humer, Willem A. Dik, Marjan A. Versnel

    [Line breaks added]


    Abstract
    Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) is a complex chronic disease of which the underlying (molecular) mechanisms are mostly unknown. An estimated 0.89% of the global population is affected by ME/CFS. Most patients experience a multitude of symptoms that severely affect their lives. These symptoms include post-exertional malaise, chronic fatigue, sleep disorder, impaired cognitive functions, flu-like symptoms, and chronic immune activation. Therapy focusses on symptom management, as there are no drugs available.

    Approximately 60% of patients develop ME/CFS following an acute infection. Such a preceding infection may induce a state of trained immunity; defined as acquired, nonspecific, immunological memory of innate immune cells. Trained immune cells undergo long term epigenetic reprogramming, which leads to changes in chromatin accessibility, metabolism, and results in a hyperresponsive phenotype.

    Initially, trained immunity has only been demonstrated in peripheral blood monocytes and macrophages. However, more recent findings indicate that hematopoietic stem cells in the bone marrow are required for long-term persistence of trained immunity.

    While trained immunity is beneficial to combat infections, a disproportionate response may cause disease. We hypothesize that pronounced hyperresponsiveness of innate immune cells to stimuli could account for the aberrant activation of various immune pathways, thereby contributing to the pathophysiology of ME/CFS.

    In this mini review, we elaborate on the concept of trained immunity as a factor involved in the pathogenesis of ME/CFS by presenting evidence from other post-infectious diseases with symptoms that closely resemble those of ME/CFS.

    Link (Frontiers in Immunology) [Provisionally accepted, currently only abstract]
     
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  2. arnoble

    arnoble Established Member

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    I noted that another thread "Defining trained immunity and its role in health and disease, 2020, Netea et al." elicited little response. Is "trained immunity" unlikely to be relevant to ME, and if so does anyone know of a good resource that explains/highlights why?

    Thanks so much.
     
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  3. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How do they account for the other 40 %? If almost half of ME/CFS isn’t caused by an acute infection, how can trained immunity be a key element? Are they suggesting that there are different subgroups?
     
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  4. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This mini-review is presumably part of the work that Wim Dik is doing on ME/CFS after having gotten a ZonMW grant.
     
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  5. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As far as I can tell they aren't suggesting that "trained immunity" only occurs due to infections and presumably it includes all sorts of effects.
     
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  6. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I only went by this:
    I might be missing something, I have no knowledge on this topic in general.
     
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  7. arnoble

    arnoble Established Member

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    Could "trained immunity" not be triggered also by autoimmune disorders?
     
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  8. Creekside

    Creekside Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does cognitive exertion triggering PEM involve innate immune cell activation?

    Do immune cells of PWME hyperrespond? Isn't that easily testable? Put some immune cells from PWME in a tube, and apply an appropriate antigen and measure the response. Compare with responses from cells from healthy (and maybe unhealthy) controls. Basic science.
     
  9. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "trained immunity; defined as acquired, nonspecific, immunological memory of innate immune cells."

    Would be the definition, which seems rather general to me. Possibly even too general to be meaningful any way or at least working out the details is what matters here. The question is whether someone would also be commited enough to work out the important details or whether it's more along the lines of thought "maybe the BCG vaccine reduces the risk of getting LC, maybe it doesn't".

    These links describe the work that Willem Dik planed to do with his grant:
    https://projecten.zonmw.nl/nl/project/immuunhandtekeningen-mecvs
    https://www.zonmw.nl/nl/artikel/blog-een-behandeling-op-maat-met-immuunhandtekeningen-voor-mecvs

    I don't remember if he also got some Long-Covid grants.
     
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  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That was my thought. I don't think new buzzwords like 'trained immunity' get us any further. The mechanisms they are proposing are reasonably plausible but in realise most innate immune cells like monocytes die pretty quickly so their training would be forgotten. I get the impression the authors realise that and so talk of stem cells. I think it then all begins to get too vague and likely based on inappropriate in vitro or animal models.

    Which was my other thought. And fortunately I am doing just that this week. I have hit on a way of getting together virtually all the information of ME/CFS, including the paradoxical things about B cells, T cells, cytokines, remissions and relapses and so on. My proposed answer will give detailed specifics of pathways, cells and tissues. It will take a few more days though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2025
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  11. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wow! Can't wait to see that (well, see it soaring over my head, anyway).

    Exciting!
     
  12. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    That was my first thought.
     
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  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sorry about the typing:

    I have hit on a way of getting together virtually all the information of ME/CFS, including the paradoxical things about B cells, T cells, cytokines, remissions and relapses and so on.
     
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  14. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights) Staff Member

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    (Also looking forward to seeing Jonathan's framework.)

    We've seen through the pandemic that a large number of acute infections are asymptomatic, including those leading on to long COVID. Coincidentally the number of asymptomatic infections is often quoted at 40%.

    Global Percentage of Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infections Among the Tested Population and Individuals With Confirmed COVID-19 Diagnosis: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis (2021, JAMA Network Open)

    Prevalence and determinants of post-acute sequelae of COVID-19 in Liberia (2023, International Journal of Epidemiology)
     
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  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I understand it trained immunity is not adaptive immunity - i.e. it is not a response to a particular antigen or infection. And we don't know that infection causes any ME/CFS. It might just reveal it.
    Trained immunity seems to imply an acquired hypersensitivity of innate immune cells to stimuli in general.
     
  16. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    I am fairly confident that when we do understand ME/CFS properly we are going to find that, for many patients at least, it has a prodromal phase, possibly quite a long one in some cases, up to decades, before it develops into the full blown syndrome. Also that the prodromal phase is going to have been widely misinterpreted as other conditions, particularly psych ones.
     
  17. V.R.T.

    V.R.T. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is intriguing! Do you plan on posting this framework on here or will it just be shared within the research community at present?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2025
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  18. V.R.T.

    V.R.T. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am pretty certain this is what happened to me. At 19 I developed a sleep disorder, depression, DPDR, blood sugar issues, lost my youthful energy, and experienced lots of strange unquantifiable neuropsychiatric symptoms and frequent debilitating panic attacks.

    All this taken together had a massive impact on my life and limited it majorly. But I don't remember ever experiencing PEM like exhaustion until I got strep at the start of 2017.

    I have seen a lot of people on the long covid subs who report no PEM but have many or all of the symptoms I had pre 2017.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2025
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  19. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If I can get my act together I may publish it open access on Qeios by about May. It can be linked in here.
     
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  20. V.R.T.

    V.R.T. Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I look forward to reading it when it's published! And to the discussion on here which always helps me make sense of scientific papers.
     
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