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I suspect this is flat out wrong. Simply because we do not appreciate a certain mechanism(s), does not mean we slap on a voodoo label and walk away. IMHO, it is better to simply admit we do not know which organic factors are at play, and that more research is desperately needed.

My point is that we do in fact at times feel the effects of cell die off, irrespective of leeching.

When red cells die at abnormal rates, we feel the very real downstream effects as anemia.

You'd think, but maybe not. Definitions and thresholds can form built-in impediments which only autopsies may overcome - and even then you'd have to be deliberately searching for the right agent with the right tools. Certainly this has been the case with Lyme disease; it's dragged down, in part...

This is not quite fair to all those patients who had no recourse to a ME diagnosis for many years. It was only CFS. PEM does also help narrow the diagnosis now that it is more widely acknowledged as a major component of ME/CFS. Of course, there is more than one type of encephalomyelitis as well.

Well, I fear this is at least in part assumptive. Certainly there are other diseases where exertion causes an exacerbation of one's symptom cluster.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/FMfcgxwDsFXrqrKLhBTgxngxXbsWFLSG Powassen Virus - Are they sure in UK? Maybe the "typical" Lyme encephalytis found in mainland Europe vs PV?

Cats, dogs, all kinds of carriers. Bartonella is one of the weird ones. It manifests it many different ways. It is easy to mistake for another disease. I was fortunate on a couple of fronts: I had a common manifestation - bad pain in the soles of my feet. Plus, I carried one of the few strains...

Oh, good. So the video is NOT about ME/CFS with a title that just says Chronic Fatigue. Cool.

Er, is that really the title of the talk? If it is, eh, it may or may not be relevant to us. So why care? I'm not watching it. Why? Because it seems to me lazy IF it applies to ME/CFS and not just a single symptom, and IF it applies, that potential sloppiness hurts.

Not to digress, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the number one cause of disability in vets is Bartonella. Can't be sure since I don't recall where I saw it, though.

It should have been before 1969, but I would not bet the ranch on that.

Maybe they got behind the Eight-Ball?

:laugh:

Not surprising Baraniuk oversaw this given his historical overlapping emphasis. I kind of like that he doesn't hold back when he labels ME/CFS and GWS "diseases of the brain." He joins Natelson in this regard, if I recall correctly. I personally would have preferred if he opined "diseases that...

We do not know the pathology of Alzheimer's. We know some of the signs, but nothing is universal except dementia. I do not need to bend words. But others will bend ours if we leave open the door, I fear.

I would suggest we have not definitively established the pathology for Alzheimer's or MS. In addition, this leaves some gaping holes. For instance, is a gambling addiction then not a disease? Are channelopathies without genetic markers not considered diseases? I can go on. If we leave an...

@Barry, "medical condition" or even "underlying condition" would include deconditioning and strained muscles and hang nails. Also, it seems like we are avoiding calling a spade a spade due to political sensitivity - and to a certain extent, medical ambiguity at least in terms of causation. I...

@Peter Trewhitt , I like most of what you have suggested just above, but I'm a bit concerned at the tendency to write "medical condition" or "underlying condition" instead of disease. I'm not sure you say disease even once. Perhaps this is deliberate, but if so, I'd advise you rethink that.

A gent. :) Willy B seemed to enjoy word play as well. It was tempting to write off some of his "wording" to Parkinson's, but I don't know.