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"Uncomfortable paths" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. The less politically correct terminology would probably be "torture". It's easy to look at animals as an outgroup to justify pursuing all available avenues of investigation. Similarly, when it was easier to view ethnically different...

So it seems the test will be based on this paper: Elevated vascular transformation blood biomarkers in Long-COVID indicate angiogenesis as a key pathophysiological mechanism 2022, Patel et al

All sides except the people still left out if the term is strict - left to get bulldozed by BPS theories.

That's not the impression I get from IOM criteria. It seems that at a minimum it only requires increase of fatigue, unrefreshing sleep (which is barely a separate thing, as @Hutan said elsewhere, something like "if my arm is still broken after sleep, does that mean I have sleep issues"), and...

That makes sense, to be as sure as possible everyone's similar, but for clinical, and maybe even for research, purposes, I'm not sure the criteria should even be more than just: "ME/CFS is the symptom of exertion intolerance without a known cause." I don't think they've shown that exertion...

Yeah, I know, I wasn't speaking about her case there. But if someone presented with simply fatigue that appeared two days after exertion but no other symptoms, I'd think that should still be PEM, as I don't know of any other delayed fatigue conditions. These criteria mostly feel very arbitrary...

Quick view of the wide variety of criteria:

I guess maybe. Gastrointestinal, probably, because food feels very heavy and takes a long time to digest. "Intolerance of extremes of temperature" maybe? When I'm really tired I'll shiver when it's not that cold. And unless unrefreshing sleep counts as "sleep disturbance", then I'm one of the...

This seems very ambiguous. It doesn't say flu-like symptoms are required, just giving it as an example. So exacerbated cognitive issues should fit too. I just did the ICC criteria questionnaire and did not fulfill it, probably because I don't have enough of the various other symptoms: "immune...

Hmm, well I don't think aches, pains, obvious immune issues, or delay in fatigue are required for ME. I certainly don't have the first three.

So I guess in @Blueskytoo's daughter's case, if her cognitive issues also increase that'd be PEM? And what if it's just fatigue, but it's delayed? Isn't delay pretty unique to PEM? Edit: The only "symptoms" required for ME/CFS by IOM criteria are fatigue, unrefreshing sleep, and either...

Just curious why you say it's not PEM. Seems like taking days to recover from normal exertion sounds pretty similar.

How a Worm Gave the South a Bad Name By Rachel Nuwer April 27, 2016 "For more than three centuries, a plague of unshakable lethargy blanketed the American South. It began with “ground itch,” a prickly tingling in the tender webs between the toes, which was soon followed by a dry cough. Weeks...

I'm going to see a doctor for the first time regarding ME/CFS in a month, and I'm very worried about what exactly is going to happen after I say "chronic fatigue syndrome". I don't want her to start suggesting antidepressants or exercise. Sure I can respond to these (name an antidepressant I've...

But doesn't this imply that while you might not be able to test for antibodies, or some other aspect of the body's response, you should be able test for the virus directly with PCR, maybe even more easily, since it's not being suppressed?

Sorry, what does this mean?

Not instant, but this person on Reddit says after testing positive for COVID 1.5 days earlier, they went from a little sleepy to very sick in one hour, though no mention of fatigue as one of the after symptoms. This person got intense fatigue and fever within an hour, after three days of muscle...

If this delayed onset period to PEM can vary with different severities of ME, maybe severe ME means the defenses are even further weakened, to where the body has more trouble holding off whatever is happening in that delayed symptom rise period. Could be there are also some people without ME...

Is it that much different from how someone feels when they get an acute infection? I think it can be a few days after an initial exposure that you're fine, then on the third or fourth day you wake up and can barely move. I could be wrong, I don't know if that's how people normally experience...

Can someone link to the Lipkin study? I can't find it.