Bright, but allergic and neurotic? A critical investigation of the “overexcitable genius” hypothesis 2022, Fries et al

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Sly Saint, Dec 23, 2022.

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  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Introduction: Higher intelligence has been associated with improved health and longevity. However, recent findings have claimed that exceptional intelligence may come at a cost. Individuals at the upmost end of the intelligence distribution are reported to be disproportionately afflicted by a set of stress-related physical and mental health conditions: so-called overexcitabilities. Few accounts have investigated this issue and no studies are available for non-US samples yet. Here, we aimed to replicate and extend previous work by examining hitherto unaddressed overexcitabilities in a European high-IQ sample.

    Methods: We carried out a preregistered survey among members of MENSA, the world’s largest high-IQ society. In total, 615 (307 male) members from Austria, Germany, Hungary, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom participated.

    Results and Discussion: Compared to the general population, our sample exhibited considerably elevated prevalences in autism spectrum disorders (risk ratio/RR = 2.25), chronic fatigue syndrome (RR = 5.69), depression (RR = 4.38), generalized anxiety (RR = 3.82), and irritable bowel syndrome (RR = 3.76). Contrary to previous accounts, neither asthma, allergies, nor autoimmune diseases were elevated. We show that this subsample of intellectually gifted persons faces specific health challenges compared to the general population. The reasons for this remain speculative, as we find little evidence for previously proposed immunological explanations. However, it is possible that the effects are caused by sample selectiveness (i.e., membership in a high-IQ society) rather than high IQ itself.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.1051910/full
     
  2. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    A study was done on Norwegian Mensa members, and it turned out they were better than non-mensans at recognizing feelings by looking at body postures. I had some fun with a psychology student discussing the framing of that study :rofl:

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.00027/full
    The Norwegian sample did not exhibit more autistic traits even though the researchers expected it as: "There was no difference in heterogeneity between the groups, contrary to the expectation of an autistic subgroup in Mensa."

    I think there are a number of problems with this type of studies, starting with the fact that Mensans as a group is a subgroup of people with high IQ as the authors themselves point out.

    Edit: re autism. For the Norwegian study, the sample was collected during the annual national Mensa meeting in Norway, so there is a selection of members that would be willing to travel to meet others and also use time at the event participating in this test.
     
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  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I think another problem with this study is the way intelligence is measured in order to join MENSA. It's pretty standard IQ testing that only looks at a limited range of abilities, or at least it was when I did it nearly 50 years ago. There's much more to intelligence than IQ, in my opinion. And then, as they point out, only a subset of people good at IQ tests choose to join MENSA.
     
  4. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I think most/all Mensa groups use figure reasoning tests. Though, it is possible to apply for membership using Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale or other tests done somewhere else (I think this one also has a figure reasoning test. At least I did one when I had my neurocognitive examination, though I'm unsure what was part of WAIS and what was part of other stuff).
     
  5. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    Yea, that's right, there's a block design subtest in the WAIS, where you have to arrange patterned blocks to reproduce a design. The puzzles progress from simple (four blocks) to complex. In the most recent version of the WAIS, there are also two other visual reasoning tasks.

    But the WAIS also has a lot of verbal stuff, including vocabulary/general knowledge, arithmetic, digit span (repeat a series of numbers forwards and backwards). It also has a test that involves speed (converting between digits and symbols as rapidly as possible).

    The whole IQ thing is so dodgy and questionable - its based more on tradition and precedent that any decent conception of how different cognitive capacities vary across individuals. They have tried to update the WAIS recently by incorporating some current ideas about human cognition (for example, introducing a working memory scale, which is about immediate problem solving, such as arithmetic ad repeating digits backwards), but its still fundamentally measuring the same vague 1920s concept of "smartness". Might be of some value as a predictor of other things, and to identify people that might need extra support, but because we don't really know what we're measuring, its not really that useful for understanding the basis of individual differences.

    I don't know how you get a paper published that just looks at some hokey old folk psychology theory ("overexcitability") and shoves a bunch of questionnaires in the faces of mensa members. I guess Frontiers isn't very fussy.
     
  6. CRG

    CRG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The biggest confounder surely is "why someone wants to be in Mensa in the first place ?"
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Ha ha, yes I agree. I joined briefly back in about 1973, when I'd moved to a city where I didn't know anyone, and wanted to meet people. I resigned when I read an article in their magazine claiming MENSA members to be superior to other people, or some such nonsense. It seemed a pretty pointless organisation.
     
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  8. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    Those people do exist, but most Mensans I know don't talk about their membership and Mensa i just a social club to meet other people with different interests. For me as a kid knowing there were others who struggled at school because teachers would make fun of them/punish them for "knowing too much" (one even said he would skin me alive for being done with a math chapter "too fast") was nice, and members of Norwegian Mensa have worked hard to increase knowledge of students with higher than average learning speeds in Norwegian schools :)
     
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  9. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I do understand that it can have value for some people, and I hope the sort of prejudiced views that put me off 50 years ago wouldn't be allowed now.
     
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  10. CRG

    CRG Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Obviously it's mixed and good that it genuinely helps young people, but as a study cohort the defining factor is the 'choice' to join, and whether nasty or nice it is a confound that has to be addressed for any study to be meaningful.

    For a different perspective on Mensa: My Year in Mensa
     
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  11. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    No one is disagreeing with that. As I mentioned in an earlier post, in other examples where Mensans have been used as study samples: In annual national meetups where only the most social people would be expected to go, making the problem even worse than it already is.

    I think someone could make a similar talk about having joined S4ME or any other group. Some of my best friends are part of (Norwegian) Mensa, and they seldom talk about it due to stigma ("socially inept" "arrogant" "elitist" etc). Sure some members fit into those stereotypes, but so do people who are not part of Mensa. And I'm sure culture will be different in different chapters of the organisation so some places will be more toxic than others.
     
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  12. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Why does the title say "A critical investigation"? This seem like the exact opposite with the attempt to get a short section in trashy newspapers. The authors have even suggested a suitable title: "Bright, but allergic and neurotic?"
     
  13. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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