Causal overstatements in modern physical activity research, 2024, Skarpsno

Discussion in 'Research methodology news and research' started by Midnattsol, May 8, 2024.

  1. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    The challenge of causation in physical activity research
    Although advancements such as access to large datasets with device-measured physical behaviour, and advances in statistics, have improved our understanding of the associations between physical activity (PA) and health outcomes, PA research often contains causal overstatements. The line between correlational and causal PA research is narrow, and confounding and reverse causation may lead to false conclusions. We contend that data must be able to answer a causal question before implications for ’24-hour’ PA guidelines and interventions are considered.

    https://doi.org/10.1136/bjsports-2023-108031
     
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  2. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    It’s paywalled and I’m on a device where I don’t have access, but I hope there are some good points. The title is promising :)
     
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  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well we can't read because paywall but I'd put a high note on the whole "PACE showed that 1 in 7 report some minor statistical improvement on a fatigue questionnaire after a year-long exercise training programs" means that exercise cures CFS. It basically agues that 1/7 of something like 10% improvement, so at best 0.01% = 100%. It's beyond absurd, we are literally 4 orders of magnitude off here, and the benefits are qualitative and never matched by objective benefits. And PACE was the best they could do, it even hides the massive harm their model causes.

    It probably takes the top rank of widely misleading overstatements in history, certainly top 10. Like someone saying they can easily lift 10,000 kg but then only do it with 10 kg and call it a success. Even worse is the audience who sees it happening and cheers wildly.
     
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  4. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks @SNT Gatchaman :)

    Needless to say on this forum, but the points raised in the editorial are obviously relevant also for research on other behaviors.
     
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  6. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    It is time to stress the need to take the causal question seriously...

    I would go further: Determining causal relationships and pathways is the whole point of science, its sole purpose. Its success rises or falls entirely on how effectively it does that. Descriptive and correlation studies are useful only insofar as they contribute to that singular goal.

    All else claiming to be science is just fluff and grift.
     
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  7. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This. A principle of scientific models (or theories) is that they have to be predictive, if not of all things, at least of one thing, and then very accurately. Models that can't predict accurately aren't very useful, while models that can't predict anything are functionally useless. They may have some intellectual value, but in the real world they aren't worth a damn.

    Evidence-based pragmatic models can't ever predict anything, they are not scientific models, have no theory behind them. All the biopsychosocial/psychosomatic models can't predict a damn thing all put together, not one bit of useful prediction. That makes them useless, it's simply wrong to apply them in real life as anything but a "heh, maybe it could work for you, probably coincidentally, but I wouldn't personally spend $5 on this if I were you".

    Which would be fine if they stuck to this, but as know, even though pragmatic trials aren't supposed to infer any causality, the entire premise of not just ME/CFS, but of all psychosomatic rehabilitation in general, is built entirely out of "those trials kinda show that it can be of help to some, therefore they are considered 100% safe and effective and that means that they are psychological disorders". This is the wrong part. I harp on it a lot, but even PACE's best results is some trivial 10% benefit for 1 in 7, and out of that the entire profession took away that it's 100% a cure and that it means that "chronic fatigue" is psychological/behavioral. This is the insane part, they know this is wrong and do it anyway, all because of permissive language that makes them get away with it.
     
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