Covid19 - Shielding and self-isolating for vulnerable people - policies and issues

JaneL

JaneL

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Thread split from Coronavirus Worldwide Spread and Control

The problem with 'shielding' people from coronavirus? It's almost impossible
Devi Sridhar and Yasmin Rafiei
Testing and tracing is the answer to protecting our most vulnerable – not trying in vain to ‘cocoon’ them away
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As western countries ease lockdown, suggestions have been made for those being shielded to stay “cocooned” away indefinitely until a vaccine or antiviral therapy is found or natural herd immunity is reached. What we suggest instead is a general strategy of suppression, where governments make a commitment to keeping daily new cases as low as possible through an active testing-and-tracing programme and real-time monitoring of transmission.

At the same time, the government should advise those in “shielded groups” about their individual risk, as well as provide them with data about transmission within their communities, and then leave these individuals to make an informed decision about how and when they would like to engage in society.

For a government to pursue shielding alone, with its proven inefficacies and intrinsic harms, would be nothing but an Orwellian strategy – one that presides over the fates of those at greatest risk, against all evidence. There are serious ethical and moral questions around building a society where the healthy and young are left to circulate, and the elderly, the disabled and the vulnerable are hidden away.
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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-impossible-coronavirus-testing-and-tracing
 
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....building a society where the healthy and young are left to circulate, and the elderly, the disabled and the vulnerable are hidden away.
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erm...isn't this precisely what we already had, pre-covid-19?

Care homes and cul de sacs for the elderly - with mainly one morning a week when they all hit town.

The disabled and the vulnerable, many simply can't get out very much, nowhere much as 'healthies' anyway - who tend to have jobs, and y'know...a life.

Many of us are effectively invisible relative to other people, and cats.

So we have a society where the elderly, the disabled and the vulnerable are mostly hidden away, already.

So no need to build one - isn't that nice and efficient.
 
JaneL said:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-impossible-coronavirus-testing-and-tracing
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Yes, if you remember, this is what I was discussing a few pages back - Re a tweet from Prof Devi Sridhar that shielding doesn’t work, and an article I linked (I think in the Times), about Asian countries & multi generational households. I agree with Prof Sridhar still and still think the same thing, that shielding doesn’t work.

It only works if you are classed as vulnerable enough to shield, but are still “well” enough to look after yourself, or have a carer who actually lives with you 24/7, who doesn’t need to go to work, who can also shield with you. And access for any delivery services or drop off services needed for food/medicines/everything else.

And that’s simply not the case for the vast majority of people, as the article points out. Multi generational households with people going out or working or going to school, carers coming in from the outside. Even in my case, I have my mum who hasn’t left the house since shielding began (she doesnt leav unless my partner comes around, as I need help with the toilet, can’t cook for myself or feed myself a lot of the time). But my partner who lives in another house with a parent and cares for them - Has not been able to see me for 2 and a half months now. And because of that, the caring and housekeeping and all tasks that used to be shared, has become 100% my mums job.

And because he’s not vulnerable - he will be told to go to work soon. So how will the vulnerable people that he lives with, including an extremely vulnerable elderly person, be able to shield? They have one bathroom, and my partner actually has to care for that person too.

I only see two people in my life and because of shielding, I am suddenly cut off from someone I saw nearly every day, or at least 2-3 times a week, for 10 years. Even not being able to hug him or have him next to me is terrible. There is no doubt in my mind that it is the govt’s fault - it is their decisions to let the virus run through the population, and make the rest of us “shield”, rather than keep everything suppressed & TTI like South Korea, that has led to me becoming even further isolated, and for knows how long. (edit: or as other countries did, an early strict lockdown for everyone + TTI, so when they open, everyone can be safe).

My mum is not coping. I’m not coping. And on top of it I am so worried as to when I’ll even be able to step outside my door to be safe to go into hospital and have a surgery that will require me to stay overnight at least one day, possibly more, as well as the other medical stuff that I need to do that keeps being put on hold. Because every time we have contact with the outside world, which is not “shielded”, we are at risk. And life has been made so much more difficult, with fear because of being unsafe and it being impossible or almost impossible to actually “shield” safely, and with much more sadness.
 
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lunarainbows said:
It only works if you are classed as vulnerable enough to shield, but are still “well” enough to look after yourself, or have a carer who actually lives with you 24/7, who doesn’t need to go to work, who can also shield with you. And access for any delivery services or drop off services needed for food/medicines/everything else.
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Precisely. It's bonkers that they haven't grasped this, and in any case they have given no advice about being in the garden. Everyone else I know who is shileding is having the windows open all day & going into their gardens, despite the neighbours being just a few mtrs away. Such that they are all, including now rather unhelpfully my carer, saying I am paranoid & too frightened, that I am being 'over the top' to avoid my garden when neighbours are out there 5mtrs away. But I don't think so. The rules just seem illogical to me.
 
What the...

Edit: not talking about Nicola Sturgeons tweet, I’m talking about Paul Brand’s tweet which she quoted. also added a second tweet





Listen, I really want to come out of shielding, as I mentioned above, I want to be able to spend time with my partner and be able to have safe medical appts and surgery. The shielding became necessary because the govt didn’t deal with things properly. So we are waiting for them to deal with things properly.

But coming out of shielding when there’s still 8000 cases a day and we are nowhere near safety? When lockdown is easing by itself, people are out, no local data, tracing going badly wrong, number of people tested “unavailable”, so no idea where the infection is. What is this? How can we be safe?

Where has this come from, where’s the “science”, how come it’s suddenly safe? Aren’t we meant to be “shielding” till the end of June anyway?
 
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lunarainbows said:
Where has this come from, where’s the “science”, how come it’s suddenly safe? Aren’t we meant to be “shielding” till the end of June anyway?
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It feels like they are making it up as they go along. People who were 'shielding' were always 'allowed' to leave their homes as the recommendation for them to shield was only ever advisory (that is, they can choose to follow the same lockdown rules that apply to everyone else). Many live with others and even in multi-generational households (with only one bathroom) so were always in close contact with family. Of course, others had non-family members coming in to their homes to care for them. It really feels like the whole shielding thing was about 'protecting the NHS' rather than the vulnerable individuals themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eased-for-englands-most-clinically-vulnerable
 
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lunarainbows said:
Listen, I really want to come out of shielding, as I mentioned above, I want to be able to spend time with my partner and be able to have safe medical appts and surgery. The shielding became necessary because the govt didn’t deal with things properly. So we are waiting for them to deal with things properly.

But coming out of shielding when there’s still 8000 cases a day and we are nowhere near safety? When lockdown is easing by itself, people are out, no local data, tracing going badly wrong, number of people tested “unavailable”, so no idea where the infection is. What is this? How can we be safe?
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Our household consists of me, my wife (who is healthy) and my wife's mother (who is in her 80s and has late stage lung cancer, so in the highest risk category). We started shielding before it became official policy, my wife is able to work from home, and we will continue to do so for as long as we possibly can - we have no faith in the decisions that are being taken at the moment.
 
I've had 3 calls left on my landline today, from someone called 'Darrell' from the DWP, with a mobile number which he says is showing because he's working from home. It's asking me to call back because I'm on the shielding list and he wants to 'check I'm okay and have everything I need'.

I'm really not happy that the NHS have given out my home number as I have NEVER given this to the DWP. I think I am going to get it changed as soon as possible because of what is now amounting to harassment.

Edited: The calls were left on my landline not my mobile (which has been turned off for 2 years now).
 
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They’ve been calling me a lot as well. It’s on my mums phone as that’s the phone number on my record at the GP (as I get far too stressed and unwell if I receive phone calls without advance notice from the GP - so gave my mums number). My mum says she’s been getting lots of calls still. It’s stressful. I don’t know who they are except it’s related to shielding.
 
Additionally, the shielding service initially said that you would know a call is genuine because it would always come from the central number given on the shielding letter. So I have no idea if this is a genuine call or not. However, I never get nuisance calls because I never input my real landline on websites even when they insist on inputting something in that field. So I can't see how someone could get my landline unless the DWP actually has been given it by the NHS or if someone (a group of scammers) have hacked the NHS shielded list and accompanying data I did not provide my landline number when I registered on the government list after receiving my shielding letter, I didn't give them any telephone numbers, just my email address as a contact method.

When my daughter received the initial shielding letter (about 4 weeks before I got one in my name) they also called my landline wanting to speak to her (but wouldn't speak to me because the letter wasn't in my name). However, that call had come from the genuine number. Not that that is proof that the caller was genuine in itself as apparently it is easy for scammers to fake the telephone number they are calling from (which is one of the security issues with the current track and trace programme).

I am considering sending a complaint about this to my MP. If I am charged to change my number (which I think is about £40 with EE) then I will ask for compensation.
 
That sounds so wrong, @Simbindi. They really shouldn't be doing this. Maybe write to your MP? Give them 'Darrell's number and ask them to phone him on your behalf and tell him to stop, and ask the MP to complain to the DWP about misuse of private phone numbers. If anyone is phoning you in this situation, it should be someone from your medical practice, and only if you have given them permission to phone you.
Edit: crossposted. Good idea.
 
Trish said:
That sounds so wrong, @Simbindi. They really shouldn't be doing this. Maybe write to your MP? Give them 'Darrell's number and ask them to phone him on your behalf and tell him to stop, and ask the MP to complain to the DWP about misuse of private phone numbers. If anyone is phoning you in this situation, it should be someone from your medical practice, and only if you have given them permission to phone you.
Edit: crossposted. Good idea.
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I am going to get my daughter to arrange for EE to change my landline number and then send any bill to my M.P. to obtain financial compensation for me!
 
The fact that 'Darrell' has tried 3 times indicates to me that he is genuine as 3 attempts is standard DWP/Civil Service practice (I remember this from when I worked for the Child Support Agency). However, the CSA never left a phone message due to confidentiality issues. Even my own GP surgery say they can't leave a telephone message because of this, even though it is on my records that I live alone! None of the legislation on data sharing has changed, but the government and NHS seem to be acting like the pandemic is a license to be able to do what they want. Obviously, in cases of a 'notifiable disease' then the regulations could be different, but that is not what this issue is regarding!
 
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What on earth are the DWP doing involved in 'shielding' anyway? It seems fishy to me. They are the least caring dept of them all so the motive certainly isn't (imo) to check if you ok. there may be some individuals who work there who are kind/caring, but in general I mean. I wouldn't put it past them to be checking on people trying to catch them out saying something they can compare to a claim & see if it contradicts/illustrates the claimant doing something they said they cant do. Obviously you're telling truth in any dealing with them @Simbindi but you know what theyre like, sneaky manipulative etc.

I'm suspicious that DWP are supposedly overwhelmed all the time with benefits claims, I'd be flabbergasted if they were making welfare calls to anyone, shielded or not. Seems like a way to check on claimants iyam.

Disgusting about the phone number too :emoji_angry:
 
It's not like they (DWP) have suddenly found themselves with lots of staff with nothing to do is it? They have an overwhelming case load of new UC claims because of lockdown & as I understand it they are still doing benefit reviews (just not face to face ones), so I cant imagine there has been a situation of 'oh well we have all these DWP staff twiddling their thumbs, lets get them ringing all these poor vulnerable shielded people to check if they're ok, we're so worried about them'.....

nah... either the list has been hacked (I dont imagine the security at supermarkets is especially good), or the DWP are using for their own ends.

Just my cynical view, I might be completely wrong of course :cautious:

And i appreciate that doesnt explain how they got your landline @Simbindi
 
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