Review Effects of traditional Chinese mind-body exercises for patients with chronic fatigue syndrome: A systematic review and meta-analysis 2023 Kong et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by Andy, Nov 24, 2023.

  1. Andy

    Andy Retired committee member

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    Background: Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is a global public health concern. We performed this systematic review of randomised controlled trials (RCTs) to evaluate the effects and safety of traditional Chinese mind-body exercises (TCME) for patients with CFS.

    Methods: We comprehensively searched MEDLINE, Embase, Web of Science, PsycINFO, Cochrane Library, CNKI, VIP databases, and Wanfang Data from inception to October 2022 for eligible RCTs of TCME for CFS management. We used Cochran's Q statistic and I2 to assess heterogeneity and conducted subgroup analyses based on different types of TCME, background therapy, and types of fatigue. We also assessed the quality of evidence using the Grading of Recommendations, Assessment, Development, and Evaluations (GRADE) approach.

    Results: We included 13 studies (n = 1187) with a maximal follow-up of 12 weeks. TCME included Qigong and Tai Chi. At the end of the treatment, compared with passive control, TCME probably reduces the severity of fatigue (standardised mean differences (SMD) = 0.85; 95% confidence interval (CI) = 0.64, 1.07, moderate certainty), depression (SMD = 0.53; 95% CI = 0.34, 0.72, moderate certainty), anxiety (SMD = 0.29; 95% CI = 0.11, 0.48, moderate certainty), sleep quality (SMD = 0.34; 95% CI = 0.10, 0.57, low certainty) and mental functioning (SMD = 0.90; 95% CI = 0.50, 1.29, low certainty). Compared with other active control therapies, TCME results in little to no difference in the severity of fatigue (SMD = 0.08; 95% CI = -0.18, 0.34, low certainty). For long-term outcomes, TCME may improve anxiety (SMD = 1.74; 95% CI = 0.44, 3.03, low certainty) compared to passive control. We did not identify TCME-related serious adverse events.

    Conclusions: In patients with CFS, TCME probably reduces post-intervention fatigue, depression, and anxiety and may improve sleep quality and mental function compared with passive control, but has limited long-term effects. These findings will help health professionals and patients with better clinical decision-making.

    PubMed listing only as link to journal doesn't work, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37994837/
     
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  2. Joan Crawford

    Joan Crawford Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "probably" about sums it up...... along with "limited long-term effects".... Patients and their doctors kinda wants something stronger than probably :banghead:
     
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  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But it isn't even probably. Using GRADE on studies of this sort is invalid.
    It is a more a question of
    'just about conceivable but unproven...'
     
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  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    About the same likelihood of effective benefits as eating pumpkin pie.

    Or auricular astrology. Or wearing a whole-body pig suit.

    Mayhaps this is all nonsense.
     
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  5. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is this different from regular astrology??
     
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  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It depends on listening to the stars rather than gazing.
    Said to be more reliably unreliable.
    For 250 dollars you could get a prediction on the next president which you could completely ignore - so worth the money.
     
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  7. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's definitely distinct.
     
  8. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Indeed. Any properly qualified charlatan knows it has to be a chicken suit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2023
  9. Creekside

    Creekside Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "Maybe kinda sorta?"

    rvallee left out "clicking your heels together three times". After all, there's anecdotal evidence that that worked for a little girl and her little dog.
     
  10. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    The Cochrane Larun et al review gets a shout out - spreading disinformation across the globe.
    Tai Chi - the movement practice that looks like a slowed down version of a martial art
    Qigong - as far as I can work out, tai chi is actually a sort of qigong. It seems to be a general term for exercise combined with breathing and a meditative state, and covers a wide range of forms.
    If anyone has better knowledge, by all means tell us.

     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2025
  11. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    tldr: they did all the things:
    including this:
    but not this:
     
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    There's potentially a lot of studies out there.

    A large number of the studies were excluded because it was determined that they did not study chronic fatigue syndrome, although I haven't seen anything about how they identified chronic fatigue syndrome.
     
  13. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I tried tai chi 26 years ago just the main stance became intolerable after a few minutes it stresses all your core muscles .I would not recommend this to anyone with M E or any other disorder that has exercise intolerance .
     
  14. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    13 studies, 8 of them with a publication date in 2015 or later (and therefore new studies since Cochrane Larun et al's search).

    Outcomes are mostly surveys, short followup times. There are a few molecules measured e.g. neuropeptide y.

    All studies except one judged to be of low risk of bias...
     
  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    When you have an active control (CBT, moxibustion, point application), the exercise interventions have similar results. We've heard that before.

    Long term followup
    12 weeks is hardly long term followup, but it looks like only two studies did it, or at least only two studies reported on some of their outcomes. One reported results for fatigue, sleep, anxiety and depression; one reported results for anxiety and depression. All versus a passive control.

    The recording of adverse events seems pretty bad. Only one study recorded a range of adverse events, and they were of the muscle ache, knee pain and dizziness variety. One other study recorded mild muscle ache but it was not distinguishable from the adverse effects record in the CBT arm.
     
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  16. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    So, here we go, for the discussion:
    So, you can either take the endorsement of this multi-study review with all the bells and whistles of the Cochrane tools and processes but no objective outcomes. It finds moderate certainty evidence that the exercise modalities reduce fatigue in the short term compared to people given no treatment. It finds that you can give people with CFS all sorts of treatments including these ones and the short term benefit is all about the same. There's little evidence at 12 weeks, but it is reported that there is low certainty evidence that these traditional exercise regimes help fatigue. And seemingly there is no evidence beyond 12 weeks.

    Or you can pay heed to @alktipping's word of caution combined with the often hard-won community knowledge that exercise of any sort is not the answer to ME/CFS.
     
  17. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    More from the discussion
    this was written to criticise another team's effort at a meta-analysis, due to
    I think they all have some more fundamental problems. There's no mention of dropouts in the paper, no exclusion of studies on the ground of an intolerable risk of bias.


    And fair enough too. Cochrane seems to have rather negative feelings towards poorly-evidenced Chinese therapies; it seems to reserve its protectionist practices and promotion activities for poorly evidenced western mind-body therapies. Make pseudo-science accessible to all.
    (This is not to criticise exercise of any cultural leaning. It's a good thing, we know that. It just does not fix ME/CFS and has a high risk of harming.)


    They are trying harder than many reviews I have seen to encourage better studies
    They mention the need for long-term outcomes and objective outcomes, although the type of objective outcomes they mention (immune function status) are horribly prone to cherry picking, with measures that aren't helpful quietly getting shelved. There's the usual note that 'we just need to tweak the offering, choose just the right sort of exercise for just the right intensity and time'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2025
  18. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They've always been at love with West Asian mind-body therapies. Totally unlike those East Asian mind-body therapies.
     
  19. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, it doesn't seem that qigong is anything particularly mysterious, it's just exercise e.g.
    Qigong is exercise; qigong applied to a patient group to improve symptoms is exercise therapy. There's no reason for Cochrane to say there have been no recent trials of exercise therapy.
     
  20. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I attended a weekly tai chi and qi gong class for 10 years prior to having ME. I loved it. Remembering the forms was intellectually challenging and I loved doing the rhythmic movements. It was a strengthening exercise and I learnt how strong my body core was in standing exercises: although a long time ago, I still think I benefit from those years.
    I then needed a hip replacement. That meant a break from tai chi and my sense of balance deteriorated. I thought it would return with practice but it didn't: I never became comfortable with the upright posture. I found I sat out more and more.
    The following year I became really ill and was given an ME diagnosis- and I couldn't do tai chi. I couldn't stand as required. Orthostatic intolerance was in the picture as it is for very many with ME.
     

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