Letter: The overview on current evidence for the treatment of ME/CFS is based on the principles of scientific assessment 2023 Ludwig et al

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Jun 28, 2023.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Paywall, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00115-023-01516-1

    Unhelpfully no preview is available at all. But given the title, the German authors and text, and the references given, I suspect that it is some sort of defence of BPS ideology in relation to ME/CFS.

    Perhaps somebody who can access it can tell us more.
     
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  2. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
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  3. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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  4. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's long, so I'll post some of the main sections (auto-translated).
     
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  5. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Concluding —

     
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  6. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Thanks, and pretty much as I suspected.
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    So we should allow flat earthers and climate change deniers and anti vaxxers equal say. Therein lies madness.

    Science is not about opinions, it's about testing hypotheses and not sticking to opinions that have been falsified.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2023
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  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Boring 19th century bigoted opinions are boring
     
  9. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Translation where there are huge gaps in knowledge con merchants and parasites of all stripes should be able to prosper .
     
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  10. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

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    Blog from Brian Hughes.

    “A science that does not allow opposing opinions abolishes knowledge.” Er, kind of

    "Colleagues and I have responded to a paper in Der Nervenarzt, the leading German neurology journal, pointing out various reasons why its “overview” of evidence-based approaches to ME/CFS treatment lacked, well, evidence.
    ...
    In summary, our critique is as follows:

    1. While it is true that exact causes are unknown for sure, the authors of the paper that was published in Der Nervenarzt omitted to describe how several biological pathways have been strongly implicated in the pathogenesis of ME/CFS.
    2. The authors omitted to mention PEM (post-exertional malaise) and its implications for adverse outcomes following exercise therapies.
    3. The authors tenuously claimed that ME/CFS prognosis is “good” by citing a highly questionable (and cherry-picked) study, while ignoring the preponderance of research on this topic which shows that prognosis is, in fact, very poor.
    4. The authors attempted to criticise the new (2021) NICE guideline for ME/CFS by citing studies that NICE themselves already identified as being of such poor quality as to be unreliable.
    5. The authors argued that comorbidity implies causality, a clear (and rather silly) example of the correlation fallacy.
    6. The authors incorrectly stated that there are no objective markers of outcomes in ME/CFS.
    7. The authors ignored the scale of incapacitation in ME/CFS, which has been recorded at around 25%."
    https://thesciencebit.net/2023/07/0...sing-opinions-abolishes-knowledge-er-kind-of/
     
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  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Excellent as ever from @Brian Hughes. Thank you.
    A pity the journal referred to won't publish that.
     
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  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Great minds!
     
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