Making the biopsychosocial model more scientific—its general and specific models, Smith, 2021

Discussion in 'Research methodology news and research' started by Andy, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    23,034
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Paywall, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953620307875
     
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,414
    Location:
    UK
    The author of this has written a book called 'Smith's Patient Centered Interviewing'.
    https://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?bookid=501&sectionid=41021115

    In the Preface he says (my bolding)
     
    Michelle, leokitten, EzzieD and 6 others like this.
  3. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,064
    Location:
    Australia
    This means we now can, for the first time, identify a scientific BPS model for every individual patient.

    If it explains everything, it explains nothing. Infinite flexibility is not a desirable feature in a scientific model, BPS or otherwise.

    Without reading the main text, I make a testable prediction that much circularity and unfalsifiability will be found therein.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    Michelle, leokitten, EzzieD and 10 others like this.
  4. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,816
    The only way to make the BPS model more scientific is to find develop a testable theory of how it impacts the body. The FND work is trying to do that though it is full of gaps.
     
  5. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,006
    What! How could the bps model be even more scientific? Impossible surely?
     
  6. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,662
    Location:
    Canada
    "This is scientific because I like it" is quite the rhetoric-based 17th century argument. They use the thing they want to prove to prove that they are right. It's a perfectly circular argument. How do serious people who work in the field of health care not see that? The reviewers. The editors. No one really sees that this is a fully circular argument? Incredible.

    If this is not a joke paper submitted to test the limits of what nonsense journals will publish, I cannot tell the difference.
     
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,175
    Location:
    London, UK
    Therefore, by definition, because the patient-centered interview defines the specific BPS model in each patient, the model itself is evidence-based. This means we now can, for the first time, identify a scientific BPS model for every individual patient.

    Er no, there was a guy called Sigmund something who tried this 100 years ago.
    Then a fellow called Karl used Sigmund's method as a definition of what science is not.
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, Lisa108 and 15 others like this.
  8. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,418
    Location:
    UK
    Isn't this like trying to put lipstick on a slug to make it pretty?
     
    MEMarge, Lisa108, EzzieD and 6 others like this.
  9. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,426
    Apophenia is the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things. Especially when the person is told there is some hidden meaning to be discovered. That would seems to be a serious problem in this approach.
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, Mithriel and 11 others like this.
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,175
    Location:
    London, UK
    Maybe our species should have been called Homo apopheniensis
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, geminiqry and 9 others like this.
  11. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,420
    Now there's a confession if ever there was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    MEMarge, EzzieD, Shinygleamy and 7 others like this.
  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,420
    An alternative being, like trying to polish a turd.

    That glib phrase "evidence-based" yet again. Low or very low quality evidence does not entitle you to start bragging about being evidence based.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    Mithriel, EzzieD, Shinygleamy and 6 others like this.
  13. alktipping

    alktipping Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,294
    since when was 3 6 minutes long enough to take a decent patient history never mind adding the bs that these people seem to have swallowed whole .
     
    MEMarge, Mithriel, chrisb and 2 others like this.
  14. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,064
    Location:
    Australia
    If you are having to use such phrases in the sales pitch, chances are you don't have the evidence.
     
    MEMarge, alktipping, Barry and 2 others like this.
  15. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,134
    Location:
    Canada
    What this paper along with the pile of other BPS papers needs is for some healthy mentally energetic person to come along and set up a youtube channel for debunking the fake science of BPS cure-alls for whatever ails you. *

    Lots of material there. Maybe not altogether entertaining so maybe David Tuller can come in and rip up some paper and throw it about.

    Or maybe a wild west theme with various olde-timey potions, lotions, salves and eye of newt jars as a backdrop.

    And a really, really big rubber stamp to smack on the paper saying 'Fake Science'.

    So let your imagination run loose with ideas -- the BPS ideologues / true believers certainly did. ;) :D

    And maybe beg the writers to get out and mingle with people outside their belief system sometime to gain some perspective. After the pandemic is over of course.

    Or maybe it's time to call the FBI in to secure the compound.

    *Apologies. I just can't take this stuff seriously any more. And I'll probably regret this attempt at humour in the morning. o_O
     
    MEMarge, alktipping, Mithriel and 4 others like this.
  16. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    29,377
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    From chapter 9:
    :confused:
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, rvallee and 8 others like this.
  17. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,429
    Location:
    California
    I'm having an ad hominen attack.
     
    MEMarge, TiredSam, alktipping and 7 others like this.
  18. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,064
    Location:
    Australia
    Because we just know for sure that they do have a defective personality type. Yes sirree, no question at all about that. The diagnostician's task is merely to figure out which type it is.
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, alktipping and 8 others like this.
  19. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,602
    What if the diagnostician has a defective personality type which causes him to mis-evaluate his patients?
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, alktipping and 7 others like this.
  20. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    A more scientific approach would be to identify each patient's personality style by referring to their astrological chart ;)
     
    MEMarge, Michelle, alktipping and 9 others like this.

Share This Page