Observational Study of Repeat Immunoadsorption in Post-COVID ME/CFS Patients with Elevated Beta-2-Adrenergic Receptor Autoantibodies,2023, Stein et al

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by Sly Saint, Sep 2, 2023.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,928
    Location:
    UK
    Scheibenbogen et al

    Abstract
    There is increasing evidence for an autoimmune aetiology in post-infectious Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS). SARS-CoV-2 has now become the main trigger for ME/CFS. We have already conducted two small proof-of-concept studies of IgG depletion by immunoadsorption (IA) in post-infectious ME/CFS, which showed efficacy in most patients. This observational study aims to evaluate the efficacy of IA in patients with post-COVID-19 ME/CFS. The primary objective is to assess the improvement in functional ability. Due to the urgency of finding therapies for post-Covid-Syndrome (PCS), we report here the interim results of the first ten patients with seven responders defined by an increase of between 10 and 35 points in the Short-Form 36 Physical Function (SF36-PF) at week four after IA. The results of this observational study will provide the basis for patient selection for a randomised controlled trial (RTC) including sham apheresis and for a RTC combining IA with B-cell depletion therapy.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.08.31.23294813v1
     
    sebaaa, Michelle, Hutan and 5 others like this.
  2. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,206
    For the immunologists on this forum: Can anybody explain a more precise hypothesis why exactly Obinutuzumab is what Scheibenbogen is planning to accompany her Immunadsorption study with?

    From what I've understood Obinutuzumab is something like "the new Rituximab", with possibly some advantages, however it isn't clear to me why it should be prioritised above some of the others (I guess Ocrelizumab, Ofatumumab, Ublituximab) if the only aim is to somehow deplete memory B-cells in the hope that that changes the production of GPCR-AABs. It makes sense to not trial Rituximab again, because who wants to study something that has already failed, but similarly one could then argue against any type of CD-20 antibody or am I missing something? I suppose one could also try to adress long lived plasma cells, so try to do what Rituximab doesn't, but she seems to believe in some amplifying feedback loop between GPCR-AABs and B-cells with CD-20, whilst at the same time this amplification isn't seen in the measurements of GPCR-AAB levels.

    I'm sure similar discussions would have been had when the Rituximab trials were discussed and I suppose it would be very relevant to try to learn from any possible shortcoming of those trials.

    Interestingly in this new study she writes "There was no correlation between AAB levels and efficacy, and patients with symptom improvement at week four showed similar recurrence of AAB levels. Thus, mechanisms other than mere AAB depletion most likely account for improvement in a subset of patients. Among these is the apoptosis of AAB-producing B cells. B cell phenotyping in our previous study provided first evidence for an effect of IA on memory B cells [10]. GPCR AABs belong to a network of natural AABs that communicate with receptors regulating physiological processes in healthy individuals.". For me that sounds somewhat like hinting at the fact that GPRC-AABs might just be some background factor part of a network of natural AABs and that the AAB that might be causing ME/CFS hasn't been discovered yet, so we might as well go down the B-cell route again to see if we can find a signal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2023
    Michelle, Hutan and Fizzlou like this.
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    29,384
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    So, they note they previously conducted a preliminary study in people with ME/CFS, and they say that seven out of ten of the patients responded rapidly - here are references 10 and 11:

    Here's the forum thread for Ref 11:
    Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Efficacy of Repeat Immunoadsorption. Tolle, Scheibenbogen et al. 2020
    I think "we observed a rapid improvement of symptoms with both short and long-term responses in seven of ten patients" is giving an impression of much more success than was actually achieved in the small unblinded studies.


    This 2023 study is for post-Covid ME/CFS.
     
    Fizzlou, Michelle, Philipp and 3 others like this.
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,181
    Location:
    London, UK
    I am afraid not. Even I have lost touch with developments in the CD20 monoclonals (or CD19, CD21). Venkat Reddy in our department has worked a lot on the higher efficacy of some of the newer ones and obinutuzumab is a popular choice. However, my general thought would be that we have little evidence that it matters much in terms of proof of concept. Rituximab works very well where anything works. Others may do a tad better but I am not even sure we have good evidence for comparisons.

    In simple terms, what I have seen of levels of these receptor antibodies is that the differences between controls and cases are so marginal as to provide fairly strong evidence that they are irrelevant.

    B cell depletion is not a trivial thing to do. With rituximab there were a few deaths. I doubt the other antibodies are much different. The motivation for using in RA was based on barn door evidence of masses of antibodies not found in normal people.
     
    sebaaa, Michelle, MeSci and 7 others like this.
  5. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    29,384
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    As they did for the pre-Covid studies, they selected people with ME/CFS and elevated ADRB2 autoantibodies. So, this is a subset of people with post-Covid ME/CFS.

    10 participants

    This regime is similar to that used for the two pre-Covid studies. Those studies also used 5 IA treatments administered over a short time. The followup IAs for responders who deteriorate is a new thing. Levels of IgA and IgM seemed to decrease during treatment more in this study than in the 2020 study.

    In the earlier work, participants were given replacement IgG at the end of the treatment. I can't see any mention of replacement IgG administration in this study - perhaps they have abandoned that? From Figure 1, it looks as though the IgA and IgM bounced back fairly well after a month (although there were statistical differences) but IgG were still substantially and significantly reduced at the one month mark.
     
    Wyva and EndME like this.
  6. EndME

    EndME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,206
    Thank you for the response.

    A bit dissapointing that Hand grip strength, which played a bigger role in her new study as prognostic marker https://www.s4me.info/threads/long-...-observational-cohort-2023.35012/#post-491497, or other objective markers don’t seem to be mentioned in the preliminary trial data. They are all part of the trial protocol https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05629988, so hopefully they can still be made available before the full study with 20 participants is completed.
     
    Michelle, Wyva and Hutan like this.
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    29,384
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    I don't think there is much in the way of a benefit beyond a short term placebo effect and possibly some natural improvement with time.

    Figure 2a shows the mean SF36-Physical function scores for the 10 participants at baseline, and the three following months.

    Screen Shot 2023-09-03 at 10.00.43 pm.png

    Figure 2b shows individual SF-36 Physical function scores for the 7 participants who were labelled 'responders' at baselines and the three following months. The three 'non-responders' should have been included in this chart.
    Screen Shot 2023-09-03 at 10.00.54 pm.png

    Figure 4 showing mean levels of fatigue for the 7 'responders' is perhaps the most-telling of all (it's also for the baseline to 3 month period)
    Screen Shot 2023-09-03 at 10.01.08 pm.png
    It shows mean levels of fatigue initially decreasing followed by a reversion to baseline levels. And remember, this was for the 'responders'.

    Sadly, I don't think it does. The lack of a sustained benefit along with a lack of a relationship between the levels of the autoantibodies and symptoms in a small unblinded study is not evidence for the treatment doing anything useful. I hope they will do a blinded study, perhaps a subset is benefitting.

    I don't know if there would be a basis for a delayed response - that is, after the 3 month mark?
     
    Michelle, Philipp, Andy and 2 others like this.
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,802

Share This Page