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I’d say these are subtyping factors rather than confounding factors and may contain the most important information. Eg what would this look like split pre and post 3 year duration? It would be great if researchers consistently subgrouped by these factors, instead of just listing the limitation...

But We don’t think HIV is caused by microbiome issues, so this seems more indication that this is something that can happen as a consequence of altered immune function not suggesting it’s key to CFS pathogenesis?

So are they saying controls who had similar microbiome also had similar metabolomics? That might indicate certain bacteria are causing problems. But then the controls presumably don’t have symptoms so does it indicate that?! Perhaps the microbiome and KEGG pathway results are both red herrings...

Would it be relatively easy to process oral microbiome samples compared to [poop emoticon]?

Apart from anything re oral microbiome this seems interesting re metabolomics too @JaimeS do you have any thoughts? What else has this research group done?

Prevolella looks interesting

Do they know it leads to shifts in functional metabolic pathways? This is different from saying it’s associated. Could altered metabolic pathways lead to altered microbiome? Eg mitochondrial dysfunction leading to impaired immunity leading to altered microbiome, or altered response to glucose...

@Marco I can’t read it all today but it looks really interesting and more developed than my random thoughts on this topic

@Forbin @Andy yes this is the type of thing I mean, the same category of cognitive psychology (I’m rusty but I learnt about this stuff at uni). With the Cocktail Party Phenomenon it reveals that we actually do hear more than we think we do because we do hear whenever someone uses our name in...

Yes that study was the epitome of why we need subgrouping. IIRC if you lump everyone together there was no significant difference from controls, hiding that under 3 years the direction of difference was *opposite* from over 3 years. And yet I can’t remember any subsequent studies from other...

It seems like there are different causes of POTS, but yes I think it could be described as a selective defect. Eg the baroreceptors don’t accurately signal body position , so leg blood vessels don’t constrict (or EDS impairs this etc) what does get picked up is hypoperfusion/potential faint...

One word: Ocado ;)

@Graham do you ever get any vertigo type symptoms? There’s something called Supermarket Syndrome which is named because it’s particularly triggered by standing walking, thinking and looking just like you do in a supermarket. http://strangesyndromes.blogspot.com/2014/07/supermarket-syndrome.html

@Marco @Invisible Woman re driving question I feel like there’s an issue with what cognitive psychologists would call attenuation. It would make sense that this requires some energy. I can’t remember if this has been studied in ME https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuation_theory It’s slightly...

I feel like I know something about this but I cannot bring it to the front of my mind right now. I think there are both biomedical and BPS theories about this. It would help me personally if we could pin down what types of muscle/walking issues are part of ME and which need further explanation...

My head feels full of cotton wool today so hoping I can add useful thoughts This is my initial reaction too. It seems a bit like ‘sometimes it’s this but it can also be that’ when this and that cover almost all possibilities. We seem to have circular definition problems because there have...

I’ve never done Perrin. I can’t decide with this (similar?) technique whether it makes things better or worse. I can feel and hear movement when I do it (it does something) but it perhaps irritates my lymph nodes.

I’m really confused by this thread (have posts been deleted or am I really foggy?!). I don’t see an ad I see an article when I click the link - I helped Lorna research that article and give a quote in it, it is legit.

Do you ever try lymphatic massage on yourself? Not sure what I think of this eg

@RuthT I’ve added under comedy/entertaining