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The bit these wallies seem to overlook is that the above only applies if the physical capabilities to exercise exist! It's akin to applying false-illness-belief psychotherapy to someone in a coma!

The ability to blag their way into areas of science and society they have no right nor competence to be.

Not sure if you misunderstand me here @large donner. I'm saying that I do not believe the problem is with muscles, but I believe the problem is with energy supply to those muscles. An engine can be in perfect working order, but if the fuel flow to it is restricted, then it cannot provide the...

This tallies very much with what I observe with my wife. For a while now I have realised one of the great ironies for mild/moderate PwME such as my wife: my wife is actually pretty fit ... except it's as if someone has turned her fuel tap partly closed. For a while she can get on fairly OK, like...

Is this something that needs to be spelled out to NICE? because it seems pretty crucial. Can they be trusted to pick up on it themselves?

Which is the heart of the matter, and why it is such a pile of poo.

But SW says "muscles being neither weak nor fatiguable", so their not being weak must surely mean they are not deconditioned.

Yes, having read @Jonathan Edwards' further post, is is clear that although the two sentences do not contradict each other, it does contradict the whole premise the paper is based on.

Yes, I do agree with that.

I know I'm being pedantic here, and SW I have not time for, but here in s4me I think being pedantic is OK :). The last sentence to me is saying that PwME in effect have healthy muscles, so whatever their underlying problem is, it is not a muscle problem. The first sentence to me is saying that...

Do you know which paper that was? Just being pedantic, because your first sentence sounds like cautioning against deconditioning as a consequence of ME, which in itself would not be the same as saying PwME inevitably were deconditioned. No fan of SW at all needless to say, but I'd want to...

So how come he said PACE to be a thing of beauty, given PACE was all about helping people overcome their false illness beliefs and so recondition themselves. This is like jumping between parallel universes.

Which of course is absurdly unscientific, implicitly admitting they did not focus on recovery in any real sense of the word at all! In this statement PW was admitting failure to achieve any kind of real recovery, effectively stating that more episodes would follow. Every time they skirt around...

Excellent.

An important question that occurs to me, which should be asked of NICE later down the line: When NICE is reviewing the evidence, will it undertake to read the full papers it is reviewing, and not just the abstracts? Do these sort of questions need noting down to ensure they don't get forgotten...

If the ME world was normal and psychiatry had not invaded ME research with all its cr*p, but instead was just decent psychiatric professionals trying to support sick people, then I would feel very happy to have one on board. Unfortunately that is just la la land at the moment.

I'd like to think it might be an example of a psychiatrist (who seem to have been bred to believe that because their world is subjective then nothing else counts) beginning to realise people's ability to actually do stuff does have credence.

Everyone has bias, it's what you do or don't do with it that counts. Sticking to rigorously good science practices (both in trials and papers) seems a good way for those with integrity to help ensure any bias cannot filter into their work.

The point that seems alien to MS, is that good science - really good science - effectively controls against bias. People inevitably have bias (they can't not have), which is why scientific papers have to be underpinned by facts and scientific rigour, not merely subjective opinions and lax...

Normally I'd agree about not feeding him, but in his case I think he makes odd little comments here and there that will come back to bite him hard in due course, the usefulness of which to our cause may not be immediately evident. He thinks he's much too clever to get caught out, and is enjoying...