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Which, to me, cascades into what seems another underlying problem: The investigators apparent dismissal of objective outcomes as having any relevance or importance. It's as if their whole mindset is along the lines of: We know ME/CFS is a psychological problem; psychological problems are only...

Aren't the authors simply saying the PACE investigators changed how they were going to interpret the outcomes long after the outcomes data were available, thereby allowing the PACE investigators to cherry pick the most favourable interpretation methods? Or maybe I'm missing you're meaning here...

Edited my post to hopefully avoid ambiguity.

I sometimes find a string of swearwords more acceptable.

Oh how true that is :rolleyes:. The awareness can potentially allow focus on what to be uncompassionate about.

Fully agree. And of course that reframing needs to also embrace those people without ME, in all areas of society, government, science, medical professions, etc. Edited for clarity.

I suspect it would have been impossible for GET participants to expect anything else. The whole objective of the intervention was to progressively increase physical function, and that expectation was deeply embedded into the treatment regime. I think it would have been much more than simply...

Excellent! :) I especially like ... ... which smacks very strongly of expectation bias, depending on what expectation the treatment had instilled. As the author's very insightfully identify, any real improvement would show no such discrimination.

I also wonder how they ascertain from a distance how closely people are adhering to what they are actually being asked to do. How do they know, for instance, that the CBT sessions aren't in fact resulting in people learning how to pace themselves better.

I would imagine @Nancy Blake that you have to be very careful even with depression, given in many cases of clinical depressions there is likely an organic cause underlying it. But I can identify with the situation where someone's problems (or a significant component of their problems), are...

So how many participants' outcomes were in fact measured?

Until none is left. Presumably restraint itself can provoke physical responses? e.g. Trying to break free; moving to and fro as captive animals often do it they have enough room for that; etc.

Get about these BPS foks don't they.

Hopefully uncomfortable places.

I think this is very likely true. The more severe a persons's ME is, the less energy is available to their whole body, including running their basic life support systems. If their energy availability drops so low, that just to stay alive they are going beyond PEM threshold, then bang - just...

My apologies to those who liked or replied to this post, which I have now deleted because in retrospect I included more personal details than I intended. Also not so sure now that NLP is much like what I did when younger.

I think there may be another complicating factor going on here. I seem to recall Charles Shepherd once saying on PR that he is one of those PwME who does not experience PEM, and I think on another thread here in S4ME some others have said the same. Ellen Goudsmit (no 'L' in her surname note) may...

I think it comes down to: they know no better, have nothing better, but totally believe in their supreme knowledge and infallibility. Very narcissistic.

Agreed.

A quick look at the Conclusions and Discussion seems all they could identify is that it is an extremely blunt instrument, primarily able to discriminate between people who are fatigued and those who are not :rolleyes:. And although the claim of evaluating change over time ... ... there is no...