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A charter to improve ME/CFS research

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research news' started by ME/CFS Skeptic, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,252
    Emphasis on PEM is also important. That means designing studies that measure after exertion, or symptoms over time, or before and after exertion, or make a comparison between PEM and non-PEM participants. This seems to make it easier to find abnormalities and those that are relevant to PEM, which is consistently ranked as one of the biggest problems for patients.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    EzzieD, Ravn, MEMarge and 6 others like this.
  2. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,666
    I am half remembering from somewhere a useful wording that indicated the need for patient involvement in planning but how to avoid a tame user group or charity with close links to the researcher(s). It was something about using a national charity or several charities/groups to ensure a voice representing the broader patient perspective.

    I thought when I read it that was a useful wording, but then completely forgot what or where. Could it have been in discussion here related to the Norwegian LP research?
     
    EzzieD, Ravn, MEMarge and 5 others like this.
  3. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,257
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Trying to do as much as possible at the person’s home - the work the Biobank and Physios for ME doing sets an example
     
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  4. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,666
    Is the issue that any research needs to involve some evaluation of subjects total activity level during the research process?

    This is in relation to both meaningful outcome measures and selection bias. Participation in research has energy costs such that we end up with the act of measuring potentially distorting what is being measured. Further only seeing subjects in clinical settings is in effect a source of selection bias as only mild and moderately impaired patient will be able to participate.
     
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  5. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,839
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    A while back, I suggested to Australia's National Health and Medical Research Council (the government organisation that distributes funds for medical research) that they require that every research proposal be endorsed by a patient advocacy group. Each endorsement should set out why the research is needed and how the researchers have worked with patients previously and on the proposal. And, the quality of that endorsement would be rated as part of the evaluation process.

    That way, projects that are endorsed by a credible patient advocacy group with a lot of members score would better on the 'patient support' measure than one endorsed by an ad hoc group, one where the participants have been chosen by the researcher.
     
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  6. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    8,385
    Totally agree with this. Especially important that a trial's database be designed with this as one of its primary requirements at inception, then it will be no big deal to achieve in practice. The requirement for this should be part of the protocol I would have thought, so that a trial cannot get past first base unless taken fully onboard.
     
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  7. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,385
    Yes. Where the hypothesis presumes a psychological reason for that condition, it must not be assumed there is no physiological reason unless already previously positively proven independently with high confident that there is no physiological reason.

    The purpose of the trial is to assess the viability of its hypothesis, so the trial's methodology must not presume the validity of its own hypothesis in pursuance of proving its hypothesis! e.g. PACE hypothesis based on psychological shortcomings being the reason physical deconditioning not reversed. Yet during the trial if physical symptoms not improved, or worsened, attributing this as failure to overcome psychological shortcomings, totally ignoring possibility of real physical implications.
     
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  8. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,159
    Location:
    Australia
    Good thread, @Michiel Tack

    Besides the standard stuff of adequate sample size, good selection criteria, and relevant control groups, etc, my two biggies are outcome measures (must be either objective or adequately blinded, or both), and measuring PEM.

    We have decades of hard undeniable real world data about what happens when this standard is not upheld.

    We should openly refuse to be cannon fodder for shitty research, and explain clearly why. We are under no obligation to accept it nor submit to its 'results'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021

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