1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 1st August 2022 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

A thread to talk about muscle biopsies

Discussion in 'Laboratory and genetic testing, medical imaging' started by strategist, Jun 7, 2022.

  1. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    I thought it would be useful to have a thread for this. Muscle biopsies aren't currently considered useful in ME/CFS but they are useful in diagnosing other illnesses that might look like ME/CFS.

    Today I've had a muscle biopsy with 3 samples, in the upper leg. It was painful despite local anesthesia and I could walk only with difficulty afterwards. I believe the method used was of the more invasive kind. It's very useful to have a driver to get home afterwards.

    I'll share my results once I get them. It will take several months.
     
  2. John Mac

    John Mac Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    584
    I had a thigh muscle biopsy done as part of a study at Liverpool University run by Professor Anne McArdle published in 2017

    IP-10 is apparently a pointer to inflammation
     
    MeSci, Rosie, alktipping and 2 others like this.
  3. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,824
    yes I remember the spasms and the pain during and afterwards. I went by myself, thankfully they did the left upper thigh and I drove myself home. I could barely walk.

    More importantly, I believe there needs to be research in that regard, so that knowledge is recorded.
     
    MeSci, Rosie, Peter Trewhitt and 2 others like this.
  4. Ryan31337

    Ryan31337 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    347
    I had a thigh muscle biopsy as part of a workup in an NHS myopathy clinic. It was a needle biopsy (looked more like a drinking straw to me!) so only needed a small incision.

    The second shot of local aesthetic really hit a nerve and I almost kicked the consultant in the face by accident, but following that the procedure was painless and I didn't have any issues with pain or mobility afterwards.

    There were "issues" with the lab and the sample needed re-examining, but eventually after many months I was told there were only mild, non-specific muscle changes so it didn't warrant any further investigation (genetic investigations) & I was discharged without explanation for the indications (poor CPETs, high resting blood lactate, muscle burning etc.).
     
    livinglighter, Mij, MeSci and 4 others like this.
  5. Rosie

    Rosie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,548
    I had a scraping of cervix tissue a couple of years ago and will be undergoing another op in September for more extensive biopsy of cervix canal. I wish I could ask that these biopsies could go on to ME research afterwards. But might not be possible after first lab testing.

    Sure is hard to walk after these biopsies!
     
  6. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,824
    I am not sure what researchers could do with cervical cells and whether they too are involved with ME pathology. I would also hate to be told that the way to be diagnosed with ME would be to have a speculum inserted and scraping my cervix. There must be a better way and then, well, men do not have cervix.
     
  7. Rosie

    Rosie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,548
    I thought any kind of muscle tissue could be used/made use of for research no matter what part of the body.

    I wouldn't expect women to go through cervical biopsy for ME when there are other areas biopsies could be taken.
    You missed my point.

    I thought I had made it clear that I am going through a biopsy and wish part of it could be helpful for ME research in some way!

    It is possible that ME could be found in all types of muscle tissue, female or male.
     
  8. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    Mine involved a cut into the skin, and then parts of the muscle being cut out with scissors.
     
  9. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,824
    Tissues are groups of cells that can be quite different from one another. Brain vs quadriceps will be very very different and while all cells have DNA, depending on what you are looking for, one would decide which cells (or tissue) they want to examine and for what purpose.

    For ME, the interest in muscle biopsy is due to the PEM component of our disease, and energy metabolism- But then, muscle biopsies are invasive and cost more than a simple blood test. Skeletal muscle cells contain a large number of mitochondria, because these cells are needed to produce energy for the body and muscles to work. So if someone is suspected to have a mito diseases, the muscle biopsy, typically on the upper thigh will be where the bulk of the muscle is, and where the doctors would look, if they need a muscle biopsy.

    The trouble with giving a piece of cervix for ME research is that half of the planet owns a cervix and it happens that regardless whether they have ME or not, cervix can get diseased, typically cancer or pre-cancer.
     
  10. Rosie

    Rosie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,548
    God bless half the planet with a cervix! and bless the other half too. :angel:
     
  11. hibiscuswahine

    hibiscuswahine Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    Aotearoa/New Zealand
    You may be onto something there, the cervix is jam packed with connective tissue and smooth muscle cells and under involuntary control, so is the prostate as it has similar developmental origins. But I think there are easier and less painful ways to get a muscle biopsy. Any biopsy is a bit ouch, lots of local anaesthetic required….want quick healing after it….
     
  12. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,486
    5 days have passed since the biopsy. I can walk without problems in the house, but I'm not supposed to use the leg much until the sutures have been removed. I've also become more tired than usual and need more naps during the day. I'm not sure why. It didn't feel like the biopsy caused a major relapse. Maybe it's the antibiotics.

    I'm so impatient and cannot wait to know what they've found.
     
  13. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Hungary
    I'm currently on antibiotics too (badly inflamed wisdom tooth) and I've also become extremely tired and groggy and barely got out of bed because I needed to sleep so much. I can't decide if this fatigue was the result of the (at that time already disappearing) infection, the antibiotics (I've got some otherwise typical side effects too, so maybe they were just too stressful for my body, who knows) or the cognitive overexertion after I wrote some long letters a few days before. Or of course the combination of these.
     
    Rosie, Peter Trewhitt, Helene and 2 others like this.

Share This Page