Acupuncture and other traditional Chinese medicine news and discussion thread

Acupuncture Is Theatrical Placebo

I've just now found this 2013 article about the acupuncture after a skeptic doctor posted a link to it on her blog. I searched S4ME to see if anyone had posted it previously but nothing came up. So here it is...

https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia...000/Acupuncture_Is_Theatrical_Placebo.25.aspx

 

Most common shoulder operation is no more beneficial than placebo surgery.

Overall, shoulder pain was substantially improved in all three groups from the start of the trial. However, decompression surgery offered no greater benefit to shoulder pain than placebo surgery. The patients in the diagnostic arthroscopy group were no more likely than those in the decompression group to guess that they had had a placebo procedure.

 

Merged thread

Acupuncture and ME crashes

Because of the issues of dislocations and pain in my joints, due to EDS, I was referred by my go to a physiotherapist. I have been receiving treatment for the last 6 months which has consisted massages of my joints and acupuncture.

A couple of sessions I had used very few points, which helped with the pain and thankfully didn’t have much impact on my ME symptoms. The 3rd session, however, was a bit more intense. Felt a little relaxed/tired after but other than that thought nothing of it. By the next evening I felt terrible and was bedridden for 3 weeks due to a bad ME crash.

At first I couldn’t quite put my finger on why I crashed and the only thing I could think of was acupuncture. I looked online to see if it affected others and I found that a couple of experiences where the same thing happened to them. One woman tried it a second time to test the theory and it affected her the same way as the first time. I have not tried it since, instead just having the deep massages of my joints. Although I have been thinking giving it another go as it did help with the pain.

I was wondering if this happened to anyone else?

 

Merged thread

Article: Verywell :Acupuncture for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; What Research Shows

Not a recommendation

I haven't been through the scientific links in this article but I suspect that the 'evidence' maybe tenous at best.

there is the option to vote on the articles content at the bottom (no registration required)
https://www.verywellhealth.com/acupuncture-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-715648

 

At least from the outset it makes clear there is no claim to cure, and not full symptom relief either. Not read past that bit yet.

 

I know a few that acupuncture has helped for symptom relief. Sane with Perrin technique. It does trend to floor you immmediately afterwards though for either.

 

Near where I lived in the early stages of ME there was a British acupuncturist who had trained in China. He told me that he cured two thirds of ME sufferers who went to him but could do nothing for the remaining third (including me as it turned out). I knew two other people in the parish with ME. One he cured; the other not.

 

I thought acupuncture in general had been shown to be no better than placebo?

 

Early on in my illness I went to one acupuncturist one day a week in the evening for about 12 weeks. The following day I would have enough energy to complete errands like shopping and whatnot. Then the following day I would fall back to my baseline.

I had my one 100% remission that lasted two to three days right after an acupuncture session with a different acupuncturist.

I also went to an acupuncture school where I went about 50 times and had no relief other than from some the herbs they gave me. At least the cost was reduced.

 

same author as this article
https://www.s4me.info/threads/artic...bromyalgia-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.7474/

 

Merged thread

Acupuncture advert banned over long COVID claim (msn.com)

 

So they've been forced to refund all customers who expected that their 'treatment' would cure long covid, and paid money to be cured accordingly, plus forced to pay compensation in the amount of 1 years turnover per defrauded client?

Harsh, possibly could be seen as unfair, but then...so were the hopes raised by their adverts, or so the ASA have deemed.

 

So I’ve never heard anyone claiming acupuncture as a cure. I do go to an acupuncturist and have a heart monitor on. I’ve noticed that my heart rate drops during and for a short time after. Not a cure but not nothing either.

 

I stopped having acupuncture treatments because the results I'd have after sessions were inconsistent, but I'll never forget the 1st session. I went into a profoundly relaxed state and saw in my mind's eye a train in India with passengers who were all cows and humans who were providing services to them. It sounds so much like a Far Side cartoon that it was probably one I had seen and forgotten about, but it was still very entertaining.

 

A lot of posts about ear seeds have been moved to Ear seeds, Acuseeds

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Copied post


https://twitter.com/user/status/1752283031744708655


ME Association @MEAssociation
@TheBAcC
:Statement on ear seeds for CFS/ME – Dragon’s Den "At present, we are unaware of any clinical research that has evaluated ear seeds alone for CFS/ME. From a traditional acupuncture perspective, the ear seeds need to be located precisely on specific points. Therefore, it is not possible to self-administer the ear seeds." Read the statement in full here: https://acupuncture.org.uk/news/statement-on-ear-seeds-for-cfs-me-dragons-den/ #pwME #MECFS #MyalgicE #MyalgicEncephalomyelitis #BBC #DragonsDen #EarSeeds #AcuSeeds #Acupuncture #BritishAcupunctureCounci

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https://acupuncture.org.uk/news/statement-on-ear-seeds-for-cfs-me-dragons-den/

Statement on ear seeds for CFS/ME – Dragon’s Den

Back to all news|29 January 2024|

Following the recent episode of Dragon’s Den in which a contestant presented a proposal for an ear seed business the BAcC has received inquiries about this form of therapy and acupuncture for myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) or chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

The current evidence-base: acupuncture ME/CFS

In the last 20 years a considerable amount of research has been conducted into acupuncture. However, the majority of the high-quality clinical trials have investigated chronic pain conditions such as: low back pain, headache, osteoarthritis of the knee and shoulder pain. These have been compiled in individual patient data meta-analysis that indicates acupuncture is effective for these chronic pain conditions, the benefits last for at least a year and is not purely placebo effects (Vickers et al, 2018).

Unfortunately, chronic fatigue syndrome has not been investigated to the same degree. The studies that have been conducted are often of low quality. The vast majority of studies have been conducted in China. This creates an extra layer of difficulty in assessing the relevance of this evidence to people in the UK. The number and frequency of treatments given in Chinese studies is often higher than typically given in the UK. As many people must access acupuncture privately the expense can limit the number of treatments. The recent systematic reviews suggest that acupuncture may be beneficial for those with chronic fatigue syndrome (Factsheet). However, these reviews also note that until high-quality clinical trials are conducted, it is not possible to be confident in these results.

CFS and traditional acupuncture

CFS/ME is a complicated condition. The BAcC represents practitioners fully trained in the traditional theories. This is a holistic practice. A traditional acupuncturist does not base treatment on the diagnosis of ‘chronic fatigue syndrome’ or ‘myalgic encephalomyelitis’. They will take a full case history and arrive at a diagnosis using the traditional theory. This diagnosis is called 证 zhèng. Zhèng is usually translated as pattern. Even for conditions where the signs and symptoms are fairly consistent, such as osteoarthritis of the knee, patients can be diagnosed with different zhèng-patterns. This means that patients with osteoarthritis of the knee we will get slightly different treatments depending on their overall signs and symptoms.

CFS is far more complicated, beside the tiredness there may be other significant symptoms such as pain, headaches, insomnia, flu-like symptoms. A standard Chinese medicine textbook may list 20 zhèng – patterns associated with tiredness, 17 with headaches, and 9 associated with insomnia. Therefore, people with CFS/ME will often receive different treatments. Whilst there is some overlap, different acupuncture points will be selected depending on the pattern. In addition, some of these patterns may require the use of moxibustion not just needles. This is a complicated issue and probably can only be fully understood through studying the traditional theories. However, hopefully, the central point is clear: there is no one-size-fits-all treatment for conditions such as chronic fatigue syndrome.

The evidence from China suggests that combinations of acupuncture and moxibustion plus Chinese herbal medicine may lead to the best outcomes. It may well be that an integrated approach, where individuals select the modalities that they find most useful, is the best way forward. However, this level of complexity does not readily fit with the current gold standard research of randomised controlled trials.

Ear seeds and ear-acupuncture

At present, we are unaware of any clinical research that has evaluated ear seeds alone for CFS/ME. The clinical research conducted in China uses body acupuncture as the first line treatment which is often combined with moxibustion. Ear seeds may be used as an adjunct to the acupuncture treatment. From a traditional acupuncture perspective the ear seeds need to be located precisely on specific points. Therefore, it is not possible to self-administer the ear seeds. The advantage of ear seeds is that they are held in place by tape and can remain in the ear for days. Once in place, people can stimulate the points themselves by pressing the seeds.

Conclusion

Unfortunately, due to the lack of high-quality clinical trials it is currently not possible to draw firm conclusions about the benefits of acupuncture for chronic fatigue syndrome. However, the evidence that does exist indicates that acupuncture and moxibustion may have positive benefits.

For those with chronic fatigue syndrome, who are interested in trying acupuncture, we recommend finding a BAcC practitioner who will be able to tailor the treatment to address your ‘zhèng-pattern’. An initial course of four to six treatments should enable you to gauge whether acupuncture is beneficial for you.

To assess the benefits of acupuncture in the UK setting, it is essential that high quality clinical research is undertaken. This will require funding. The British Acupuncture Council is willing to collaborate in research projects with universities, charities, government bodies.



British Acupuncture Council

The British Acupuncture Council (BAcC) guarantees high standards of training, safe practice and professional conduct.

Look for the letters MBAcC after the name of your acupuncturist to be sure of:

• extensive training – minimum three years degree level – with relevant western medicine including anatomy and physiology
• adherence to the BAcC codes of safe practice and professional conduct
• compliance with current health and safety legislation
• full cover for medical malpractice and public/products liability
• mandatory continuing professional development to keep knowledge and skills up to date

The BAcC is an Accredited Register with the Professional Standards Authority for Health & Social Care (PSA). The PSA protects the public by overseeing the regulation and registration of healthcare professionals – including statutorily regulated professions, such as the Nursing and Midwifery Council, and Accredited Registers like the BAcC. This offers a quality mark for high standards of training, safe practice, and professional conduct. Statutory regulated healthcare professionals, such as member of the General Medical Council, can use Accredited Register status as an assurance the safety and quality of care provided when making referrals.

 

Yes, it looks like a straightforward untruth. And from what people are posting maybe one of many.

In a court of law would have thought advertising something based on actual untruths was fraud.

Of course in recent times that sort of behaviour would get you a peerage if you put a bit of dosh in the fund. But emulating Lady Mone might not be such a good idea by the end of the year.