Anyone tried H2O2 therapy?

[Puppylover]

Hello. I'm new here so greetings to all.
I'm wondering if anyone here has ever tried/been on the H2O2 therapy? Mainly I want to know how long the H2O2 stays in your body. From what I've read it sounds like it should mostly be a stand alone treatment, and should not be used along with certain supplements. Of course there's always confusion because one site will say one thing and another something completely different. I simply want know if h2o2 will stay in your system for days ou if it's pretty much gone fast so that i can avoid taking certain supplements while it's still in me etc. Hopefully you all will understand what i mean. Thanks in advance!

 

[Skycloud]

Hello @Puppylover, and welcome to the forum! I hope you like it here, there's lot's of good info and members are helpful .

I'm glad you asked your question. I have to tell you taking hydrogen peroxide is a bad idea. There is no scientific basis for it to be effective and it's potentially very dangerous. This section from the Wikipedia article is helpful:

Use in alternative medicine
Practitioners of alternative medicine have advocated the use of hydrogen peroxide for various conditions, including emphysema, influenza, AIDS and cancer,[74] although there is no evidence of effectiveness and in some cases it may even be fatal.[75][76][77][78][79]

The practice calls for the daily consumption of hydrogen peroxide, either orally or by injection and is, in general, based around two precepts. First, that hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced by the body to combat infection; and second, that human pathogens (including cancer: See Warburg hypothesis) are anaerobic and cannot survive in oxygen-rich environments. The ingestion or injection of hydrogen peroxide is therefore believed to kill disease by mimicking the immune response in addition to increasing levels of oxygen within the body. This makes it similar to other oxygen-based therapies, such as ozone therapy and hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Both the effectiveness and safety of hydrogen peroxide therapy is scientifically questionable. Hydrogen peroxide is produced by the immune system but in a carefully controlled manner. Cells called phagocytes engulf pathogens and then use hydrogen peroxide to destroy them. The peroxide is toxic to both the cell and the pathogen and so is kept within a special compartment, called a phagosome. Free hydrogen peroxide will damage any tissue it encounters via oxidative stress; a process which also has been proposed as a cause of cancer.[80] Claims that hydrogen peroxide therapy increases cellular levels of oxygen have not been supported. The quantities administered would be expected to provide very little additional oxygen compared to that available from normal respiration. It should also be noted that it is difficult to raise the level of oxygen around cancer cells within a tumour, as the blood supply tends to be poor, a situation known as tumor hypoxia.

Large oral doses of hydrogen peroxide at a 3% concentration may cause irritation and blistering to the mouth, throat, and abdomen as well as abdominal pain, vomiting, and diarrhea.[75] Intravenous injection of hydrogen peroxide has been linked to several deaths.[77][78][79]

The American Cancer Society states that "there is no scientific evidence that hydrogen peroxide is a safe, effective or useful cancer treatment."[76] Furthermore, the therapy is not approved by the U.S. FDA.

Many of us, including me, have tried various things that are no use because we all just want to be well. I'm sorry to squash an idea that you thought may be helpful.

 

[Puppylover]

Hello Skycloud, thanks for replying to my post. I've actually been taking it in low dose for over a month now. The 7 months prior to taking it were actually very crummy for me in terms of health. My lungs absolutely did not feel healthy at all. Also had other issues not related to lungs. Constant wheezing, coughing, phlegm, shortness of breath.

The last month prior to starting the h2o2 was horrible. It started with what seemed at first like a cold or oncoming flu or something but no one in the household ever got sick. Low grade fever, constricted lungs, headaches, body aches, inflamed tissues throughout my body. Pretty much felt like a train wreck and only kept feeling worse each week.

Someone brought home a bottle of food grade h2o2, I hadn't even researched it at all but simply looked at the pamphlet that was included and just decided I was willing to try anything at that point. Two- three days later I noticed the ugly persistent pimples on my face were gone. A couple more days later my lungs and body in general felt like i had never been sick. Felt even better than I had in the last year or more.

I used to always sleep with my mouth open and breath through it at night because of constant stuffed up nasal passages since I can remember. I still feel very good a month later. Feel more energy, clearer thinking, some issues with the rest of my body though are not gone are definitely improving. The auto immune condition i have that causes me inflammation has not flared up much in a month which is very rare.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, and I'm not even sure if it'll have negative long term effects. I'm scared to take it in larger doses than what i have taken due to the negative stuff I've read. However, what I'm doing now has been quite a turn around for me as opposed to how it had been since early this year.

Whoever reads this can take from it what they will and they can think I'm crazy or what not. Like i said even I'm not sure what if anything negative it might be doing in my body, but so far I can only say positive things about it.

For now all i simply want to know is if anyone knows how long it stays in your system after you take it. I can't seem to find much info about that.

Please excuse my lengthy reply but i just felt the need to share this. All i hear is people that have probably never given it a try, warning against it as if it were a guaranteed trip to the emergency room as soon as it hits your throat or stomach and you'd start convulsing etc. For me it has been the opposite, i felt like I belonged in a hospital bed prior to taking it. Now i feel a bit more my age so to speak.

 

[Judee]

Yeah, I read somewhere that hydrogen peroxide is actually a negative byproduct to some function in our system. My simplistic thinking says that it probably would be bad to give our bodies even more of it to deal with.

Maybe someone here with a biological education might be able to add more to the discussion.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I agree that 'hydrogen peroxide therapy' is just a scam that has no basis and may be very dangerous.

But in response to the question. Hydrogen peroxide is likely to be neutralised through damaging body tissues within minutes. But supplements tend to stay in the body for many days or weeks. So if there is a worry about interaction you cannot avoid the interaction by stopping a supplement for a day. The body will still be carrying a load of supplements from before to interact with the peroxide, if such an interaction actually occurs.

 

[Hutan]

Puppylover, this webpage
https://www.poison.org/articles/2012-jun/hydrogen-peroxide
suggests that household peroxide with concentrations of 2 to 3% (household hydrogen peroxide) is likely to quickly decompose, given how reactive it is. (Edit: although I see that prepared solutions of these low dilutions have stabilisers in them that should not be ingested.)

Children who swallow small amounts of household hydrogen peroxide have few if any problems. The most common symptom is stomach upset and possibly an episode of vomiting. When peroxide is swallowed, it generates oxygen bubbles in the stomach. If there are enough of them, they stretch the stomach out and the child vomits up the foam. Hydrogen peroxide [at the low dilution] can be mildly irritating, so the child could complain of a bit of mouth soreness and stomach distress. A small drink of water or milk usually is all that's needed. Hydrogen peroxide is not absorbed from the stomach into the body; once a child's stomach settles down, no other problems are expected.

Someone brought home a bottle of food grade h2o2, I hadn't even researched it at all but simply looked at the pamphlet that was included and just decided I was willing to try anything at that point.

I see that you mention 'food grade hydrogen peroxide'. That is typically 35% concentration which is a completely different story. The same webpage I mentioned above says:

Drinking higher concentrations of hydrogen peroxide [than the 2% dilution of household hydrogen peroxide] can be very dangerous because it can cause tissue burns. "Food grade" hydrogen peroxide is sometimes used as an alternative therapy for a variety of conditions: allergies, arthritis, HIV, diabetes, emphysema, lupus, shingles, warts, and irregular heart rhythms, among many others. (These recommendations are not based on scientific evidence.) Users are instructed to put a few drops of the concentrated hydrogen peroxide into a glass of water. Users often store the hydrogen peroxide in the refrigerator - and that's the dangerous part of this practice. People mistake the bottle of concentrated hydrogen peroxide for something good to drink. Children and adults who swallowed concentrated hydrogen peroxide suffered severe injury, and in some cases died.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

All i hear is people that have probably never given it a try, warning against it as if it were a guaranteed trip to the emergency room as soon as it hits your throat or stomach and you'd start convulsing etc.

@Puppylover, The reason you may hear warnings from people who have not tried this is probably that it would be extremely stupid to try it. I was a laboratory scientist and have 'tried it' in the sense that we used hydrogen peroxide regularly as a reagent ('food grade' really means laboratory or industrial grade) and from time to time we had spills. It causes nasty burns. It should not be kept in the house because children have died as a result of ingesting oxidising agents of this sort - either by mistake or because foolish parents have given it to them.

Note that one particular pharmacy makes this statement about food grade peroxide:

PLEASE BE AWARE YOU MUST BE A LIMITED COMPANY TO BUY THIS PRODUCT AND REGISTER ON OUR WEBSITE. GENERAL PUBLIC MUST HOLD A LICENCE TO PURCHASE THIS. WE WILL CANCEL YOUR PURCHASE UNLESS THESE TERMS ARE MET.

Hydrogen Peroxide is a chemical compound with the formula H2O2. In its pure form it is a colourless liquid, slightly more viscous than water; however for safety reasons it is normally used as an aqueous solution. Hydrogen peroxide is the simplest peroxide (a compound with an oxygen-oxygen single bond) and finds use as a strong oxidiser, bleaching agent and disinfectant.

Hydrogen Peroxide is usually handled as a dilute solution (household grades are typically 3-6%). Its chemistry is dominated by the nature of its unstable peroxide bond.

Purchasing this product above 12% will need to be delivered to a commercial premises and you will need to complete our due diligence forms.

 

[Puppylover]

Since I find it hard to reply to each of you individually I'll just respond in general to all above replies.
I'm not promoting it just to be clear. I only wanted to know how long it stays in the body when ingested this way.
That said, i understand why it would be dangerous in a way to take it. I have experienced the burn that it causes when exposed to it undiluted, which is why I'm taking it in very low concentration, less than 5 drops in a full 8 oz water. We do not keep it anywhere near a place where it could possibly be mistaken as a drink or where kids could ever stumble upon it by accident or otherwise. Always extra careful when handling it.

I know it seems stupid to ingest something that you have to be so careful around. Like I mentioned though, the positive effects i have been experiencing are mind blowing when i think about how crappy my health was prior.

So no, not trying to promote it here but let's bring some balance to the table and let it be known that hey it CAN be ingested without winding up in the ER, and it CAN help a lot with health issues, even if it were only temporarily.

I must mention one other (good i think) side effect. I usually have a chronic sweet tooth, but since starting h2o2, I hardly crave sweets. I can't imagine that being a bad thing!

Either way, i appreciate all your concerns, I understand that it is something to be very careful about. I only hope i can get a clearer answer to my original question if possible. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, I hope however i brought a little bit even a minute amount of balance to the issue about this therapy. Blessings.

 

[oroffey]

This is obviously quite an old discussion but hoping that maybe some science has evolved around this in the intervening years.

Clearly H2O2 is harmful to ingest even at quite low concentrations (and the lack of knowledge around long term effects makes it difficult to gauge if micro doses are appropriate) but there does seem to be quite a bit of circumstantial evidence for whom H2O2 seems to have had a very positive effect (See for example: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/09/19/eclectic-treatments-recovery-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/).

Have there been any studies on the possible benefits of H2O2? If not, why not?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

quite a bit of circumstantial evidence

Seems to be just some stories on the net of wonder cures, isn't it?
People like to believe in these things it seems, but I haven't seen any reason to take this seriously.

 

[Hutan]

but there does seem to be quite a bit of circumstantial evidence for whom H2O2 seems to have had a very positive effect (See for example: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/09/19/eclectic-treatments-recovery-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/).

That blog is about one man's account of using an enormous grab bag of alternative therapies. Things that are clearly nonsense are mentioned as helpful. I don't think the blog constitutes evidence of any sort, particularly as the man, Jason, has written a book that he wants to promote. Cort (the author of the Health Rising blog about Jason's experience) notes that he (Cort) tried intravenous hydrogen peroxide (which sounds like an incredibly bad idea), and, in any case, "it - like everything else - failed to do anything". I have not seen 'quite a bit of circumstantial evidence' for H2O2 in any form helping ME/CFS.

Jason states that the therapy purports to release large amounts of oxygen in the blood and is very effective at killing pathogens.

Regarding this idea of H2O2 being very effective at killing pathogens:
Medscape looked at the evidence and concluded that H2O2 at the dilutions that don't cause harm

appears not to negatively influence wound healing, but it is also ineffective in reducing the bacterial count.

USA Today looked at the claims that inhaling H2O2 through a nebuliser treats Covid-19. They concluded that there was no evidence to support this claim.

 

[oroffey]

Good feedback. Thank you.

I totally understand the need for a scientific approach to this. I’m just concerned that this is shunned due to the perception of “bleach” (related media to that) and that there hasn’t been any research papers in to whether it is efficacious. USA Today study only says “no research to support the claim” - which I agree with but why is that research not being done?

This means the only “evidence” out there is the blogs online but there seem to be more and more people saying it works for them (the one I posted was just one example).

Interestingly while writing this I found this journal article (not looked at peer review) but something at least:https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2022.841310/full

“Guan et al. (37) examined the effects of a H2/O2mixed gas (67% H2, 33% O2) on patients with COVID-19 by an open-label multicenter clinical trial and showed that the improvements in disease severity, dyspnea, cough, chest distress, chest pain, and oxygen saturation were significantly greater in H2/O2 treatment group (44 patients) than those in control group (46 patients)”

Seems to indicate that there could be something in this? However perhaps in H2/O2 form instead.

 

[Trish]

H2/O2 mixed gases is a completely different thing chemically from H2O2. They can't be compared as treatments any more than comparing H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) which is toxic, to H2O which is water.

 

[oroffey]

Thanks Trish…not the best scientist! Interesting results with the H2/O2 combo though!

 

[Hutan]

“Guan et al. (37) examined the effects of a H2/O2mixed gas (67% H2, 33% O2) on patients with COVID-19 by an open-label multicenter clinical trial and showed that the improvements in disease severity, dyspnea, cough, chest distress, chest pain, and oxygen saturation were significantly greater in H2/O2 treatment group (44 patients) than those in control group (46 patients)”

Seems to indicate that there could be something in this? However perhaps in H2/O2 form instead.

I'm with Trish, my understanding is that mixing H2 and O2 almost always just produces water. You need specific catalysts to make the mixture result in H2O2.

Efficient direct synthesis is difficult to achieve, as the reaction of hydrogen with oxygen thermodynamically favours production of water. Systems for direct synthesis have been developed, most of which employ finely dispersed metal catalysts similar to those used for hydrogenation of organic substrates.

I haven't read the study on the effects of H2 and O2 on patients with Covid-19, but the quote you give suggests that it is an open-label trial and some of the symptoms being assessed require subjective evaluation. That means that there is lots of scope for positive bias. The biggest issue however is that giving oxygen to patients whose lungs aren't working well when they have Covid-19 is a standard practice - and it is hardly surprising that doing that would raise oxygen saturations and make people feel better. I assume that that is why it is done. But it doesn't tell us anything about whether inhaling those two gases together can help ME/CFS.

Interestingly while writing this I found this journal article (not looked at peer review) but something at least:https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2022.841310/full

The link you give is not specifically about the H2 +O2 gases for Covid-19 patients, it's a literature review to determine if H2 might be useful as a treatment of ME/CFS. We do already have a thread on it, but there isn't much discussion there yet:
Molecular Hydrogen as a Medical Gas for the Treatment of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/CFS: Possible Efficacy Based on a Literature Review, 2022, Hirano

It might be worth looking at that paper a bit more closely to see if there is anything there. I am a bit put off by some of statements in the first part of the paper though - e.g. the authors report that CoQ10 helps ME/CFS a bit, but we've looked at the studies, and there is no real evidence to suggest that that is true.

 

[FMMM1]

I'm with Trish, my understanding is that mixing H2 and O2 almost always just produces water

I laughed when I read this & read no further. Long time since I did any chemistry but I'd have thought that "water" was the least of your worries ---- explosion possibly?
If you have a load of H2 then the green energy folks would be interested --- need a hydrogen vehicle though!

Reminds me of something a former President recommended --- drinking bleach? Thankfully Fauci intervened!

As per others, welcome @Puppylover - leave peroxide to the hairdressers etc.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

which I agree with but why is that research not being done?

Why should anybody want to do it?
You might as well study washing your ears out with turps or sitting on a cold floor for 3 hours.
This is the world of fake news and black magic, basically.

The depressing thing is that this sort of pseudoscience is now published in what look like science journals.

 

[JemPD]

I am no scientist but i was a hairdresser many moons ago. We used 3,6,9 & 12% strength depending on the task. Or in 'old' language 10,20,30,40 volume.

40vol on the skin without gloves was a proper burn, depending on how fast you managed to get it off. We used 6% on the scalp, but always it was used as an activator - not on its own, therefore it never actually touched the skin at 6 or even 3%. By the time it touched the skin it was diluted at least 3 to 1, but it could still cause irritation.

I cant imagine taking it internally!

To make it safe you would have to dilute it to the point that it is barely still hydrogen peroxide. We used to mix our own from 40 vol... so if you had 300mls of 40 vol & added 300mls of water you'd get 20 vol. then take 300mls of 20vol & add 300mls water to make 10vol & so on. At less than 5vol (1.5%) it was essentially little more than water in terms of its ability to do anything. Occasionally we'd get an apprentice who mixed it wrong & made it too dilute & it would just do absolutely nothing.

So " a few drops in a glass of water", would be diluted down to so weak it would be almost homeopathic. Therefore completely pointless.
And taken at an active strength likely cause life threatening damage to your GI tract. lunacy

I hope there never will be a trial for it, its absurd. Either a waste of time or potentially fatal. Sorry, taking hydrogen peroxide is madness.

 

[Ildias]

Completely reversed MECFS(Took 2 years), 3%(10 drops per 2 liter of water) H2O2, it was fallowed by low GI diet and at the baseline targeted(VO2Max) training. Last year helped vaccine injured/LC person and two mild LC get rid of majority of symptoms. There is also science behind it(if you look carefully on thing like NOX1, Catalase, SOD etc.) with scientific paper(s) suggesting homeostasis on microbial and cellular level. So n=4 atm. Not saying or suggesting usage, but for me personally did "magic".

 

[bobbler]

Hello Skycloud, thanks for replying to my post. I've actually been taking it in low dose for over a month now. The 7 months prior to taking it were actually very crummy for me in terms of health. My lungs absolutely did not feel healthy at all. Also had other issues not related to lungs. Constant wheezing, coughing, phlegm, shortness of breath.

The last month prior to starting the h2o2 was horrible. It started with what seemed at first like a cold or oncoming flu or something but no one in the household ever got sick. Low grade fever, constricted lungs, headaches, body aches, inflamed tissues throughout my body. Pretty much felt like a train wreck and only kept feeling worse each week.

Someone brought home a bottle of food grade h2o2, I hadn't even researched it at all but simply looked at the pamphlet that was included and just decided I was willing to try anything at that point. Two- three days later I noticed the ugly persistent pimples on my face were gone. A couple more days later my lungs and body in general felt like i had never been sick. Felt even better than I had in the last year or more.

I used to always sleep with my mouth open and breath through it at night because of constant stuffed up nasal passages since I can remember. I still feel very good a month later. Feel more energy, clearer thinking, some issues with the rest of my body though are not gone are definitely improving. The auto immune condition i have that causes me inflammation has not flared up much in a month which is very rare.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, and I'm not even sure if it'll have negative long term effects. I'm scared to take it in larger doses than what i have taken due to the negative stuff I've read. However, what I'm doing now has been quite a turn around for me as opposed to how it had been since early this year.

Whoever reads this can take from it what they will and they can think I'm crazy or what not. Like i said even I'm not sure what if anything negative it might be doing in my body, but so far I can only say positive things about it.

For now all i simply want to know is if anyone knows how long it stays in your system after you take it. I can't seem to find much info about that.

Please excuse my lengthy reply but i just felt the need to share this. All i hear is people that have probably never given it a try, warning against it as if it were a guaranteed trip to the emergency room as soon as it hits your throat or stomach and you'd start convulsing etc. For me it has been the opposite, i felt like I belonged in a hospital bed prior to taking it. Now i feel a bit more my age so to speak.

I agree with other people on swallowing hydrogen peroxide - it is not something I'd ever think to do based on what I know of it.

Some mouthwashes for where you eg have gum disease have hydrogen peroxide (and taste blinking horrendous but needs must)

I will admit that when I've had a particularly manky sore throat I've also tried it [mouthwash] 'topically' just to see if it cleared the gank off.

But I have never swallowed it, and think that perhaps some of the benefits you mention could be achieved without swallowing it ie just by the 'mouthwash' aspect of any solution?

and if so there might be other alternatives that do similar, but are safer for long term use?