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Functional Neurological Disorder (FND) - articles, social media and discussion
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Snow Leopard
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I'm hoping to start talking like a Nac Mac Feegle if I fall off my ebike and hurt my head. You heard it here first.
NelliePledge
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I had to Google that 
alktipping
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
if only we had their tenacity for battle at every opportunity .Terry Pratchett was a wonderful writer with many levels to his story telling .
Peter T
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
A total non sequitur, but though struggling to remember the full details, some forty plus years ago there was a Scottish writer trying to spearhead a revival of Celtic/Pictish pagan spirituality. He used to lead woodland expeditions at night for people to identify their spirit guides. I did know someone who went along to such an event, but when I asked him about his spirit guide he replied that it was a moonless night, he tripped, broke his leg and ended up in hospital well before any spirits manifested.
One of this writer’s lines that stuck in my mind was that ‘not all fairies were pretty dainty little winged creature but some were big and hairy, distinctly dangerous and dressed in leather’. I can’t be certain now that my memory hasn’t added in the ‘dressed in leather’ for narrative effect, it was a bit Tom of Finland meets the Little Folk.. However I did wonder when I later read of the Nac Mac Feegle if Terry Pratchett was familiar with the work of this Caledonian visionary.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...smissed-doctors-myth-virus-harmless/103959078
Now aged 13, Jack was a fit and talented athlete whose life revolved around sports, especially cricket, rugby and tennis. It's a major reason his father Brett* was so shocked when, during one of their visits to the hospital, a neurologist performed a few reflex tests on Jack, concluded his nerves were fine, then announced his symptoms were psychological.
"He said, 'Listen, it's all in your son's head, he has something called FND — functional neurological disorder'," says Brett. "I said, 'Is that psychosomatic?' and he said, 'Well, we don't call it that anymore'." Brett now knows that FND is a controversial diagnosis that should only be made after excluding other possible medical conditions. Numerous long COVID patients have reported being misdiagnosed with FND — a precarious situation, experts say, because it can block their access to testing and treatment. But Jack was devastated. "He was crying because he's the kid who goes to rugby with a migraine … he'll push through anything," Brett says. "So for the neurologist to say … it was all in his head, I think that broke him a bit."
Now aged 13, Jack was a fit and talented athlete whose life revolved around sports, especially cricket, rugby and tennis. It's a major reason his father Brett* was so shocked when, during one of their visits to the hospital, a neurologist performed a few reflex tests on Jack, concluded his nerves were fine, then announced his symptoms were psychological.
"He said, 'Listen, it's all in your son's head, he has something called FND — functional neurological disorder'," says Brett. "I said, 'Is that psychosomatic?' and he said, 'Well, we don't call it that anymore'." Brett now knows that FND is a controversial diagnosis that should only be made after excluding other possible medical conditions. Numerous long COVID patients have reported being misdiagnosed with FND — a precarious situation, experts say, because it can block their access to testing and treatment. But Jack was devastated. "He was crying because he's the kid who goes to rugby with a migraine … he'll push through anything," Brett says. "So for the neurologist to say … it was all in his head, I think that broke him a bit."
There seems to have been a noticeable extension of " reach" in FND diagnoses recently to existing defined conditions .
There have been a fair amount of tweets batting back and forth .
POTS seems to be a favourite at moment
https://twitter.com/user/status/1805981601580376242
Let me help clarify this debate/confusion/anecdotes... I'll be brief because I am not confused. POTS IS NOT FND. There is no debate and no elaborate formulations needed. I am always happy to explain the pathophysiology of #POTS and other autonomic disorders to physicians.
There have been a fair amount of tweets batting back and forth .
POTS seems to be a favourite at moment
https://twitter.com/user/status/1805981601580376242
Let me help clarify this debate/confusion/anecdotes... I'll be brief because I am not confused. POTS IS NOT FND. There is no debate and no elaborate formulations needed. I am always happy to explain the pathophysiology of #POTS and other autonomic disorders to physicians.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1807057489260634381
Here is an important point: if you come on MY posts to argue with me, be prepared to defend your position. If you can't defend your position, don't comment. This will be my last post reinstating the obvious for those who still have doubts or are unclear, unsure or confused:
POTS is not a psychiatric disorder
POTS is not functional or "functional neurologic disorder."
Stress is a major trigger and must be reduced; psychiatric comorbidities must be treated IF/WHEN present
POTS is a neurologic and cardiovascular disorder with multiple symptoms and comorbidities: FND is not a common comorbidity.
Wishing everyone a great day and an exciting #DysConf2024!
Here is an important point: if you come on MY posts to argue with me, be prepared to defend your position. If you can't defend your position, don't comment. This will be my last post reinstating the obvious for those who still have doubts or are unclear, unsure or confused:
POTS is not a psychiatric disorder POTS is not functional or "functional neurologic disorder." Stress is a major trigger and must be reduced; psychiatric comorbidities must be treated IF/WHEN presentPOTS is a neurologic and cardiovascular disorder with multiple symptoms and comorbidities: FND is not a common comorbidity.
Wishing everyone a great day and an exciting #DysConf2024!
Snow Leopard
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I had to Google that
Crivens! Whut aboot us, ye daftie!
NelliePledge
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Mij
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Merged thread
Judge rules forklift truck driver's rare Long Covid symptom is a disability
Mr Thompson was dismissed from his job in May 2023 and in July he was diagnosed as having a functional neurological disorder resulting from Long Covid. He then launched an employment tribunal claim for disability discrimination.
Employment Judge Humble has now ruled that Mr Thompson's condition is a disability and therefore he can proceed with his claim for discrimination. A final hearing is due to be held from October 22 to October 24.
"Further, it was a long-term condition. Even if the substantial adverse effect had not lasted as long as twelve months by early 2023, it was likely to do so given that it was a deteriorating condition which was still awaiting further assessment. The tribunal therefore find that the claimant was disabled on 17th May 2023, which is the material time for the purposes of the claim."
LINK
Judge rules forklift truck driver's rare Long Covid symptom is a disability
Mr Thompson was dismissed from his job in May 2023 and in July he was diagnosed as having a functional neurological disorder resulting from Long Covid. He then launched an employment tribunal claim for disability discrimination.
Employment Judge Humble has now ruled that Mr Thompson's condition is a disability and therefore he can proceed with his claim for discrimination. A final hearing is due to be held from October 22 to October 24.
"Further, it was a long-term condition. Even if the substantial adverse effect had not lasted as long as twelve months by early 2023, it was likely to do so given that it was a deteriorating condition which was still awaiting further assessment. The tribunal therefore find that the claimant was disabled on 17th May 2023, which is the material time for the purposes of the claim."
LINK
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Interesting, thanks Mij.
Also notable that being labelled with a 'functional neurological disorder' does not seem to have stopped this man from being classified as 'disabled by a long-term condition' at that particular time. I wonder how much bearing the finding that the condition 'was still awaiting further assessment' had. If he had been quickly assessed when the condition arose and had been told that he could think his way out of his symptoms by a consultant, and then was still claiming to be disabled, I wonder what the outcome would have been.
Perhaps the arguments that FND is treatable and any ongoing disability is due to a lack of compliance with the treatment might have been wheeled out. But, those arguments are very weak and don't seem to be getting stronger.
Notable that having Long Covid was said by the judge to have given rise to a functional neurological disorder. That's slightly weird - I would have thought the hypothesis would be for FND to be the result of Covid-19. Long Covid (the persistent symptoms) essentially constitutes the FND. But, in any case, it's more evidence that people with Long Covid are being diagnosed with FND.
Also notable that being labelled with a 'functional neurological disorder' does not seem to have stopped this man from being classified as 'disabled by a long-term condition' at that particular time. I wonder how much bearing the finding that the condition 'was still awaiting further assessment' had. If he had been quickly assessed when the condition arose and had been told that he could think his way out of his symptoms by a consultant, and then was still claiming to be disabled, I wonder what the outcome would have been.
Perhaps the arguments that FND is treatable and any ongoing disability is due to a lack of compliance with the treatment might have been wheeled out. But, those arguments are very weak and don't seem to be getting stronger.
NelliePledge
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Presumably to be diagnosed FND there was involvement from Neurology specialists who will have written some statement about him.
The neurologist who tried to pin FND on me made a similar distinction - he was happy to agree that I'd initially had Long Covid, i.e. some lingering symptoms after acute infection, but that this had now "transitioned" into FND because I was traumatised by the illness so I was imagining myself still to be ill. I did explain to him that I hadn't experienced any trauma, but sadly he seemed to develop Functional Deafness Disorder every time I spoke.
rvallee
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I hope something like this doesn't happen to me because there's almost zero chance I wouldn't just call them stupid for believing in bullshit like this. Which I assume would leave some note on my record about being unpleasant and non-compliant. Although also maybe jovial, since I'd probably laugh and point at them a lot, probably make a few too many air jerking motions. I'd try to make sure that that I laughed at them makes it into the notes. For accuracy's sake.
At least try to make some damn sense. When someone talks about stuff like this I pretty much only hear squeaky fart noises.
MeSci
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Merged thread
BBC Radio 4 programme featuring 'Functional Neurological Disorder' (FND)
I haven't listened to this yet, but can be fairly confident that it will be a load of cr*p, knowing Claudia Hammond's views/approach:
"All in the Mind
FND - the most common disorder you’ve probably never heard of; political polarisation; All in the Mind Awards judge ZeZe
Functional Neurological Disorder, or FND, is the most common disorder you’ve probably never heard of. Some say it might be as common as MS or Parkinson’s and yet it’s not well known even by many medical professionals. It can cause seizures, paralysis, convulsions and changes in sensation, as well as pain, fatigue and memory difficulties.
It’s caused by a problem with the system in the brain that connects us consciously into our bodies, leaving sufferers unable to access their bodies properly. Because it doesn’t show up on scans and tests it is often not diagnosed effectively, and patients can face difficulties accessing the help they need or even being believed that their symptoms are real.
Claudia Hammond sits in on a consultation at the Maudsley Hospital between Emma, a new patient who is having exactly those problems, and Mark Edwards, Professor of Neurology and Interface Disorders at King’s College London.
She also meets Callum Alexander, a recovered patient who now volunteers for the charity FND Hope. He was referred by Mark for specialist neurophysiotherapy with Glenn Nielsen at St George’s University Hospital, which had immediate results. Glenn tells us that FND can cause the brain to become excessively focused on actions are normally automatic, such as walking, and that redirecting the brain’s attention can be one way of alleviating it.
Meanwhile, Emma is relieved she finally has a name to put to her condition and Mark is pushing for more positive diagnoses of FND."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00237pf
BBC Radio 4 programme featuring 'Functional Neurological Disorder' (FND)
I haven't listened to this yet, but can be fairly confident that it will be a load of cr*p, knowing Claudia Hammond's views/approach:
"All in the Mind
FND - the most common disorder you’ve probably never heard of; political polarisation; All in the Mind Awards judge ZeZe
Functional Neurological Disorder, or FND, is the most common disorder you’ve probably never heard of. Some say it might be as common as MS or Parkinson’s and yet it’s not well known even by many medical professionals. It can cause seizures, paralysis, convulsions and changes in sensation, as well as pain, fatigue and memory difficulties.
It’s caused by a problem with the system in the brain that connects us consciously into our bodies, leaving sufferers unable to access their bodies properly. Because it doesn’t show up on scans and tests it is often not diagnosed effectively, and patients can face difficulties accessing the help they need or even being believed that their symptoms are real.
Claudia Hammond sits in on a consultation at the Maudsley Hospital between Emma, a new patient who is having exactly those problems, and Mark Edwards, Professor of Neurology and Interface Disorders at King’s College London.
She also meets Callum Alexander, a recovered patient who now volunteers for the charity FND Hope. He was referred by Mark for specialist neurophysiotherapy with Glenn Nielsen at St George’s University Hospital, which had immediate results. Glenn tells us that FND can cause the brain to become excessively focused on actions are normally automatic, such as walking, and that redirecting the brain’s attention can be one way of alleviating it.
Meanwhile, Emma is relieved she finally has a name to put to her condition and Mark is pushing for more positive diagnoses of FND."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00237pf
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Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Munchausen by physician, again ?
JohnTheJack
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Say what?