David Bell about "slow sepsis" in ME

Forbin said:
Are you referring to the 100% identity of the ME/CFS gene expression signature with that of Systemic Inflammatory Response Syndrome referenced at about 14:10? Until recently (2016), the SIRS criteria were being used to diagnose probable sepsis.
Click to expand...
Yes, the chart that shows the correlation.
 
Inara said:
Something that doesn't lead to death, but to a slow progression of degeneration?
Click to expand...

I would use the term progressive for myself. I am slowly getting worse, but I dont know if any of my tissues or body systems could be described as degenerating.

TiredSam said:
My understanding is that ME is not necessarily degenerative, but fluctuating.
Click to expand...

My initial course of illness was fluctuating but after the first 10 years seems to have become progressive. It still fluctuates, but the baseline has become more of a downward slope than a level line.

Most of the last 20 years has seen the cheerful pronouncements that most people improve, if not recover, in time. That may be true for some, but just how many I wonder? There seems to be quite a few on the forum who are getting slowly worse. I think that idea that most people improve with time is part of the reason no bothers to take the condition seriously. Like with the common cold, people feel awful, but if they are going to recover by themselves anyway, why worry about it?
 
Inara said:
I doubted these statements the moment I understodd how 'normal ranges' are obtained. If people used their common sense and brain, maybe there wouldn't be a problem. But common sense is a rarity.
Click to expand...
If numbers were on the outer bounds of normal range, then

I would tend to think that a trend (whether the number is moving in or out of the normal range over time)

and any difference from the patient’s own norms where known

would be more interesting than absolute numbers.

ETA: But it’s all just clues. If we don’t know what we’re looking for, it may be next to useless.

(Personal experience: hyperparathyroid showed as elevated, but ‘still within normal bounds’, blood calcium which on following 2-3 measurements went up to just above normal. This had a diagnosable cure: ultrasound to find enlarged parathyroid gland and surgically remove. So got the ultrasound and proceeded from there.
If there was nothing to do about a barely abnormal result I don’t know that it would help at all.)
 
Last edited:
Inara said:
It's a word I use to explain what I see in my family. (No doctor would tell me my illness might be degenerative, quite the contrary.) It doesn't have to be correct, particularly in general. But it fits my personal observation.

I see structural change and loss of function of organs in my family. Sometimes it's scary. One of my ("older") family members is very bad off.
Click to expand...
If one loses muscle, as I and many have, and as was demonstrated in one of the recent studies (by elevated 3-methylhistidine levels in men), then I would call that degenerative. Might not be permanent, but my muscles have certainly degenerated.

And one of the things that increases 3-methylhistidine levels is 'sepsis', so whether or not 'slow sepsis' is 'silly term' or not, I think it might have value.
 
Inara said:
Interesting, @dannybex. I haven't seen this new publication, can you link?
Click to expand...
Well, not exactly new, but the 2016 study from our friends in Norway...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161229/

"Analysis in 200 ME/CFS patients and 102 healthy individuals showed a specific reduction of amino acids that fuel oxidative metabolism via the TCA cycle, mainly in female ME/CFS patients. Serum 3-methylhistidine, a marker of endogenous protein catabolism, was significantly increased in male patients."
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom