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High-dose Oral Thiamine Vs Placebo for Chronic Fatigue in Patients With Quiescent Inflammatory Bowel Disease, 2021, Bager et al

Discussion in 'Health News and Research unrelated to ME/CFS' started by dreampop, Apr 25, 2021.

  1. dreampop

    dreampop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Randomised clinical trial: high-dose oral thiamine versus placebo for chronic fatigue in patients with quiescent inflammatory bowel diseas, Bager et al

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33210299/

    Health Rising had a guest blog feauturing this study, https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2021/04/15/thiamine-b-1-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fibromyalgia/, which supposes a hypothetical link to treating me/cfs.
     
  2. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,199
    Location:
    UK
    Hasn't virtually everyone (pwME), who's been around a 'while', already tied high dose thiamine , with null or very limited results?

    Doesn't an increase in fatigue from doing 'nothing' (other than presumably answering a questionnaire), suggest an 'issue' with their questionnaire?
     
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    16,009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    It's hard to know what was going on without seeing the actual data.

    https://www.ecco-ibd.eu/publications/ecco-news/item/y-ecco-literature-review-eathar-shakweh.html
    At that link there is some analysis of the study which sheds a bit more light. There were complications such as the improvement in the first group was not statistically significant. Also some of the participants had other illnesses (e.g rheumatoid arthritis), so various things could have been going on in what were pretty small sample sizes.

    The commentator found
    which seems reasonable.

    They also questioned whether the IBD could have been made more 'quiescent'. The people in the study were those who still had fatigue after 'successful' treatment for IBD. Maybe if the disease is still grumbling on a little, and the bowel hasn't yet fully repaired itself, it's not surprising that the fatigue continues, with a trend towards getting better over time.

    I was thinking the commentary of the study was pretty good, but of course, 'multi-faceted' and 'multi-disciplinary' had to come into it:
    I was slightly alarmed to find out that a 'gastro-psychologist' is a thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
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  4. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    One or two individuals have been aggressively pushing this high dose thiamine treatment hypothesis on twitter and reddit lately as a cure for ME/CFS. As far as I can tell, they don't even have ME/CFS. It's odd.
     
  5. 5vforest

    5vforest Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    102
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I've taken Thiamine/B1 before, as it is commonly recommended while taking Disulfiram for Lyme Disease.

    I didn't realize at the time that it was technically a "high dose".

    I guess it's like Vitamin C, where the common supplement dose is an order of magnitude (or more) above the recommended daily intake?

    The study design looks pretty good, I'm just not sure if it is indeed relevant to ME/CFS.
     
    alktipping, Trish and Hutan like this.
  6. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,222
    Location:
    UK
    I wondered what high dose actually meant. Turns out it is between 600mg and 1800mg per day. I've come across the lower of those two doses before in other contexts, but never anything higher.

    I've come across thiamine being suggested as a treatment for low energy in people with hypothyroidism several times.

    In that context it gets mentioned quite often on Izabella Wentz's website : https://thyroidpharmacist.com/?s=thiamine

    I've also read that it helps girls who react badly to getting the Gardasil vaccine /HPV vaccine.

    https://www.hormonesmatter.com/post-gardasil-pots-thiamine-deficiency/
    https://www.hormonesmatter.com/ideas-gardasil-toxicity-thiamine-connection/

    The above two links are both by the same man, and I have no idea if he is well thought of or not.
     
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  7. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    I've had another look and one of these individuals is pushing it because he believes that Beri Beri and ME/CFS have similar symptoms. As far as I can see, there's very few similarities.

    It was also being peddled by the group of doctors who claimed to have found the cause and cure for LongCovid only a few weeks after the LongCovid phenomenon was first publicised. Even LongCovid patients appear to be completely unimpressed with the overblown hype from this group these days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  8. Nellie

    Nellie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
    UK
    Sorry if this has already been posted, it was some tiny N=3) studies from Italy:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23696141/

    I tried Thiamine (maybe 2014) and gradually worked up to 1800. I had much more energy and was able to walk about a quarter of a mile. I lost my nerve and stopped as I had no idea what I was doing.
     
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