Hypothesis: inflammatory acid-base disruption underpins Long Covid 2023, van der Togt & Rossman

Discussion in 'Long Covid research' started by Sly Saint, Apr 14, 2023.

  1. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What I suspect is that lactic acidosis can occur too easily (as a downstream effect of compromised metabolism) and this may be part of the rapid fatiguability we experience. One question I had was whether the degree of fatiguability had any relationship to progression to PEM — i.e. can we tolerate pushing our barely adequate 'rescue' metabolism up to a point but go too far and the result is PEM? If so, could that have any relationship to measurable lactate levels and potentially be predicted and avoided?

    I hope this might have been well evaluated by NIH and so we might get a proper answer. Reading Brian's descriptions of what the heroic patients put themselves through I think much valuable data will have been obtained.
     
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've had my RBC lactate values measured during next day delayed PEM and my results were normal. I felt horrible both cognitively and physically during the blood draw.
     
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  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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  4. Paulie

    Paulie Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not sure if this answers your question but I noticed in the manual of the lactate device I bought that it says either venous or capillary blood can be used on the test strips.
     
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  5. Paulie

    Paulie Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    The device I bought (Glucorx x6) includes claims about accuracy in the leaflet that comes with test strips, including differences in accuracy between venous and capillary tests. See image.
     

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  6. darrellpf

    darrellpf Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I did a two day exercise test at a facility that usually tests athletes. When I asked if there was anything unusual in the tests the lady said that the amount of lactate I was producing was more like a young person than someone 56 years old.
     
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  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    So, a relatively low level?

    Lactate testing for sports applications
    That quote above suggests that lactate levels in ME/CFS might be the result of a mix of factors. People who are sedentary, so physically untrained, might have a low lactate threshold, and so blood levels of lactate might increase quickly. And/or, having ME/CFS might "train" the body to utilise lactate more effectively, if aerobic respiration isn't working well, keeping lactate levels low. It's also possible that there is something specifically about the ME/CFS metabolism that produces unusual lactate outcomes, but I don't think we've even identified what those unusual lactate outcomes are.

    I am rather doubtful that lactate levels are very informative in ME/CFS. That said, there are other conditions that can cause some ME/CFS-like symptoms and high lactate levels, including some that need swift medical attention, so testing is not a bad idea.
     
  8. Paulie

    Paulie Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's interesting if your lactate was low after exercise because a couple of days ago I tested with my lactate machine and after walking 2 miles and resting an hour the two tests were almost identical. I was only walking but to me it felt like I had been running - I collapsed on the bed after doing the first test - exhausted and legs burning. But no apparent increase in lactate. I would have expected at least 3 or 4 mmol/L and then a reduction for the second test.
     

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