Impact of COVID-19 & 2021 NICE Guidelines on Public Perspectives Toward ME/CFS: Twitter Analysis, 2025, Khakban et al (Jason Busse)

This would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. It’s sentiment analysis on twitter, lol. Not going to waste any energy reading or thinking about it.

I will add they used RoBERTa for the sentiment analysis, this is an old and small mode based on Google’s BERT. Maybe it’s good in specific circumstances but it’s not anything near current models, just in parameter size it’s under 500 million compared to the 27 billion parameter models some here run on their laptops and hundreds of billions in frontier models
 
Last edited:
It really is pathetic, coming out just after Zhang et al. show important genetic causal links.

It seems they found a lot of negative messages about care and research - so they feel they need to send out a negative message about patients.

I suspect they’re not any more fond of you than they are of us. Actually I suspect most of those whose names are on this don’t know what it’s about beyond what they were told by Busse. I think one might be a CBT comrade true believer, but—and honestly this is just speculation—I’m assuming it’s mostly his show. I mean, do we even have any reason to believe they even know who you are?

But there will likely be more than enough pushback on Twitter to nail down the confirmation bias I’m sure he’s happy to spread if there are actually any in this group—Jeremy Devine is McMaster, too, isn’t he—who are as yet uninitiated to our corner of the internet.

@Utsikt I had to dash off a few sarcasm-heavy paras just to blow off some steam. Just my take on how they chose to spin this crap.
 
In part, due to concerns about harm (eg, PEM following GET) and stigmatization (with CBT).

"In part, due to concerns about […] stigmatization (with CBT)."

What on earth are they talking about?

(Also, they've clearly spent so much time on Twitter that they've lost the ability to write in full sentences.)
 
From the discussion section:

ME/CFS research is a contentious topic as, although 4 decades of study since case definitions of ME and CFS were published in the mid-to-late 1980s [47], a biomedical cause or biomarkers of disease remain elusive.
Prospective studies that control for ascertainment bias have failed to show an association between acute infection and development of ME/CFS [48]. In contrast, several studies have found associations between the onset of ME/CFS and elevated premorbid stress, psychopathology, severe life events, or difficulties [49,50]. These findings should not be construed as evidence that symptoms associated with ME/CFS are not real, but as support that the central nervous systems’ response to biological, psychological, and social factors may be more likely to explain symptoms versus a specific disease process [51]. However, our findings suggest this paradigm may be unacceptable to many people living with ME/CFS
Ref 48 is by Wessely from 1995.
49, 50 are from 2006 and 2009
51 is the dreadful Oslo fatigue consortium "Chronic fatigue syndromes: real illnesses that people can recover from."

Our analysis suggests the updated NICE guideline was well-received by patients and may be associated with the increase in positive tweets at this time. However, 4 members of the 2021 NICE guideline development committee resigned in protest [56], representatives of 7 UK medical groups (including the Royal College of Physicians) signed a joint statement relaying concerns with the guideline [57], and more than 50 international specialists analyzed the guideline and concluded that “the consequences of this are that patients may be denied helpful treatments and therefore risk persistent ill health and disability” [58]. At present, there are at least 2 ongoing campaigns by ME/CFS advocacy groups to have other publications they disagree with retracted: a Cochrane review that found GET was helpful for ME/CFS [59] and a deep phenotyping study of patients with ME/CFS that found functional limitations were due to “altered effort preference” [60].
58 is the White Anomalies article trying to argue against NICE.
59 is the infamous Cochrane review

The notion that recovery from ME/CFS is not possible is inconsistent with the evidence. Although only 5% of patients experience full recovery without targeted intervention [66], observational studies have reported a recovery rate of 18% following CBT [67,68]. There are entire organizations dedicated to recovered patients, such as Recovery Norge [69]. Interviews with patients who have fully recovered from ME/CFS reveal a consistent pattern of engagement with graduated exercise and psychotherapy to increase self-agency [70,71]. Furthermore, recovery from ME/CFS is associated with not attributing illness to a physical cause and a greater sense of control over symptoms [66]. However, patients who achieve recovery report conflicts with patients who have not, including skepticism about whether they had ME/CFS. Once patients recover from ME/CFS, they are less likely to remain engaged with online support groups [72].
66 is a systematic review from 2005.
67 and 68 are by Chalder and Wessely.
Notable that they don't know of any other 'recovery organisations' and have to wheel out Recovery Norge again.

70 and 71 are both based on interviews with a few patients, Busse is co-author on one of them.

Note that apparently patients' stories are useful evidence if they tell of recovery, but dismissed if they tell of being harmed.

Implications

Our findings highlight several important issues. First, although current evidence supports exercise therapy [77] and CBT [78] for the management of ME/CFS, some patients find these approaches unacceptable. In part, due to concerns about harm (eg, PEM following GET) and stigmatization (with CBT). Further research is needed to inform how best to support patients’ engagement with evidence-based care. Second, patients often report unsatisfactory health care encounters leading to disengagement and a desire to attend clinicians that view ME/CFS as purely physical disorder. For example, some surgeons offer cranial and spinal decompression as a treatment for ME/CFS [79], despite a lack of evidence supporting this approach. These findings reinforce the importance of building therapeutic relationships with patients living with ME/CFS that include addressing possible concerns about mind-body treatment approaches. Patients who view their health care provider as sympathetic may be more willing to engage in shared decision-making about interventions they are considering. Third, our findings with respect to the potential influence of advocacy efforts on science are especially critical given the increasingly recognized importance of including patient partners in research [80]. Involvement of patient partners can improve the quality and relevance of research efforts [81]; however, participants with important intellectual conflicts of interest can compromise the research process and reduce the trustworthiness of results [82]. Finally, ME/CFS is not the first postinfectious syndrome, and will not be the last [83]. The latest variant is PCC, which, at present, is the focus of considerable attention and research funding. This presents important opportunities to advance our understanding of the etiology, prognosis, and effective management of this disorder. Such efforts would be more valuable if they considered the degree to which results may be generalizable to postinfectious fatigue syndromes in general.
77 is the Cochrane review.
The bit about patient involvement and conflicts of interest seems to twist the meaning. 81 is a positive article about patient involvement, and 82 discusses strategies for ensuring guideline panel members don't have intellectual or financial conflicts of interest. By linking the two with a 'however', Busse seems to imply that it is the involvement of patients that causes conflict of interest, which is rubbish.
Edit: Note also that Busse seems unaware of White and Sharpe's massive intellectual and financial conflicts of interest. And all the others of many of the BPS cabal.

Future Directions
Twitter is an important source of information and communication for people living with ME/CFS. The degree to which advice is credible and consistent with the current best evidence is therefore important [84]. Our findings suggest that some individuals living with ME/CFS who post on Twitter believe that GET is harmful, CBT is ineffective, and recovery is not possible. Efforts should be made to promote the dissemination of evidence-based information on Twitter and assist patients in assessing the credibility of statements made on social media. Removing hope of improvement or recovery from ME/CFS can have dire consequences for some patients [85-88]. A survey of members of the Canadian Association of Medical Assistance in Dying Assessors and Providers found that ME/CFS was the second most common nonfatal condition for which medical assistance in dying was requested [89].

This whole paper could have been written by Busse without any input from Twitter. He clearly knew exactly how he would misuse the Twitter data before he saw it. It's all there in the section I have underlined in the conclusion.

The final set of references are to individuals' posts about assisted dying, which I think is abuse of desperate people's tragedies, and not appropriate in this article, especially not as the 'punch line' to the conclusion. It's disgusting. How much lower are these people prepared to go? We have just had the BMJ opinion piece misusing Maeve's dreadful suffering, now this.

I would like the journal to be contacted to complain that their internet research department has been abused to promote nasty prejudiced drivel.
 
This does not reflect public perspectives since almost no one cares or talks about ME/CFS outside of those affected. Instead it reflects what the patient community thinks, which is still valuable but a wholly different thing from "public perspectives", since it's also very obvious that we pretty much exclusively talk among ourselves, with about 95-99% of all discussions made strictly by patients.

You do have to marvel at how easily they reconcile analyzing social media discussion, framed as a "public perspective", when it actually represented the isolated bubble of the patient community, while holding on to the false notion that such views are just a small, vocal minority. It's just like the fabled "silent majority" in politics, people who never seem to exist, yet whose alluded desires are always front-and-center.

Reading through some of the rest, this is just clumsy propaganda, about as serious as this:
j8bxwklpe7fd1.jpeg
Efforts should be made to promote the dissemination of evidence-based information on Twitter and assist patients in assessing the credibility of statements made on social media.
You know what, please do that. Spend a lot of effort and money on the social media that was a nexus of the patient community up to, you know, events. Which the patient community did not mostly abandon after it took a turn into far-right trolling. Buy clumsy ads to feature alongside crypto scams and boner pills. Please spend a lot of effort on that, people will totally not be boo-urning you.
 
Prospective studies that control for ascertainment bias have failed to show an association between acute infection and development of ME/CFS [48]. In contrast, several studies have found associations between the onset of ME/CFS and elevated premorbid stress, psychopathology, severe life events, or difficulties [49,50].
Reference 48 is the Wessely study that found no association, but all other studies did find an association:
Chronic fatigue syndrome after infectious mononucleosis in adolescents - PubMed
Post-infective and chronic fatigue syndromes precipitated by viral and non-viral pathogens: prospective cohort study - PubMed
Incidence, risk and prognosis of acute and chronic fatigue syndromes and psychiatric disorders after glandular fever - PubMed
Chronic fatigue syndrome 5 years after giardiasis: differential diagnoses, characteristics and natural course - PMC

Reference 49 is a case-control study without a longitudinal design. Reference 50 is about chronic fatigue, not CFS.

EDIT: I originally quoted the wrong section here:
Our findings suggest that some individuals living with ME/CFS who post on Twitter believe that GET is harmful, CBT is ineffective, and recovery is not possible. Efforts should be made to promote the dissemination of evidence-based information on Twitter and assist patients in assessing the credibility of statements made on social media
Involvement of patient partners can improve the quality and relevance of research efforts [81]; however, participants with important intellectual conflicts of interest can compromise the research process and reduce the trustworthiness of results
Seems like the world upside down that they are suggesting that ME/CFS patients have a conflict of interest and should therefore not be involved in research and guidelines on ME/CFS.
 
Last edited:
Prospective studies that control for ascertainment bias have failed to show an association between acute infection and development of ME/CFS [48]
I feel like it's important to point out that this was also generally "true" of peptic ulcers and multiple sclerosis and their respective pathogens. Until it wasn't. Plus, I don't think we can say this anymore given, you know, LONG COVID, which they literally mention a lot, yet seem to have missed that, regardless of what they think, there is definitely not just an association, but a specifically causative one. Just because the pathological mechanism isn't understood yet doesn't change that. We also don't know that mechanism for MS and how EBV does its thing.

You know, I don't think these people understand how science works at all. They all seem to operate with the notion that current knowledge is fixed and unchangeable. It may have to do with the fact that their own field of study never actually changes, possibly giving them this incorrect idea that other scientific disciplines work the same way, but they really don't. The contrast with the speed of progress in, say, artificial intelligence, is astounding, like comparing a stationary bicycle with broken pedals to a fighter jet.

Really, it's just the academic version of "nobody knew about X" when someone learns about X, even when X is common knowledge. Toddler thinking, basically. "But where did the hand-puppet go? It was there a moment ago! Oh, it's here again! Oh, noes, gone again, what is this sorcery?!"
 
This study was funded through an anonymous donor via the McMaster University Trust.
Strange that the donor remains anonymous because that makes it impossible to assess potential conflicts of interest.

Also a bit difficult to see who would be interested in spending (I suspect ten thousands of dollars) on a study that analyses what ME/CFS patients say on Twitter. The long discussion section reads like an opinion piece where the authors argue that NICE was wrong, that recovery isn't rare, that infections and ME/CFS are not associated but ME/CFS and stress are, that fibromyalgia and ME/CFS are probably the same thing, etc. Most of these opinions have little to do with the actual data from their study.
 
Last edited:
I note that Busse is part of the team of 'Cochrane Insurance Medicine'

Their blurb says:


We work within Cochrane to advocate for systematic reviews that reflect the particular needs of sick or disabled people, as well as society’s needs for sustainable welfare and insurance systems.

We work within the multidisciplinary insurance medicine community to advocate for decision-making based on finding, understanding and using the best available evidence. We do this by carrying out knowledge translation of high quality evidence about health care and social care.


Our Vision

The initiators of CIM envision decision-makers and professionals concerned with medical judgments on diagnosis, prognosis, and effectiveness of interventions in an insurance context to make evidence-informed decisions by using high quality Cochrane reviews of the best available evidence.




All a bit odd?
 
It feels like a conspiracy. But at the end of the day it’s pretty much just explainable by people in power in the medical establishment holding onto an ideology and using their power to that end. It’s no wonder it all feels connected. It is!
 
But why a twitter sentiment analysis instead of the good old “correlation study with dodgy psychosocial questionnaires” or “open label trial with subjective outcomes”
One of the biggest takeaways from Long Covid has been how invaluable the patient community is. Especially compared to the bureaucratic indifference and cruelty of the health care industry. It has effectively flipped the old narratives about us, if one is willing to accept how the narratives don't conflict in any way, do not mark a change, but rather is correcting a record that was intentionally poisoned and corrupted.

I see this as trying to flip things back: patients bad, must avoid, self-reinforcing doomerism, and so on. Psychobehavioral ideology has little to do with health, is more of a public relations industry. So here they are, doing bad PR about us, reversing years where the truth of "patients bad" didn't conform to the old script. By making us the enemy, they make themselves the saviors. Or whatever goes on in their minds.

Medicine, like most institutions, needs to invent enemies to account for their failures. Us, social media, TikTok. Anything that contradicts their narratives, they see as a challenge on their power. This is flexing institutional power against what is essentially the only source of good out of Long Covid: the patient community. Hell, without social media, without twitter in particular, there would have never been any talk of LC. It would all have been swept under the rug, a classic story of mass hysteria. So naturally they hate the hell out of it, and have to fight it.
 
Last edited:
But why a twitter sentiment analysis instead of the good old “correlation study with dodgy psychosocial questionnaires” or “open label trial with subjective outcomes”
Perhaps they lack cooperation of a clinic where sufficient ME/CFS patients go to? I think their previous study was also based on online surveys and their publication on Long Covid was a systematic review.
 
Seems like the world upside down that they are suggesting that ME/CFS patients have a conflict of interest and should therefore not be involved in research and guidelines on ME/CFS.
I originally quoted the wrong section here. This is what I was commenting on, from the paper:
Involvement of patient partners can improve the quality and relevance of research efforts [81]; however, participants with important intellectual conflicts of interest can compromise the research process and reduce the trustworthiness of results
 
I note that Busse is part of the team of 'Cochrane Insurance Medicine'

Their blurb says:


We work within Cochrane to advocate for systematic reviews that reflect the particular needs of sick or disabled people, as well as society’s needs for sustainable welfare and insurance systems.

We work within the multidisciplinary insurance medicine community to advocate for decision-making based on finding, understanding and using the best available evidence. We do this by carrying out knowledge translation of high quality evidence about health care and social care.


Our Vision

The initiators of CIM envision decision-makers and professionals concerned with medical judgments on diagnosis, prognosis, and effectiveness of interventions in an insurance context to make evidence-informed decisions by using high quality Cochrane reviews of the best available evidence.




All a bit odd?
I’ve found the following two links which give a sense of what it is. Was started up in 2015.


https://www.researchgate.net/public...surance_Medicine_looking_back_looking_forward

https://insuremed.cochrane.org/sites/insuremed.cochrane.org/files/uploads/annualreport2020.pdf

You can scroll to the bottom to see the logos of the supporters (of annual report? Whole thing?)
 
Back
Top