Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, Einstein (allegedly), a rant about psychobehavioural research

Trish

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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, Einstein (allegedly), a rant about psychobehavioural research
by me.


This morning I skimmed a zillionth research report of a clinical trial comparing two versions of essentially the same psychobehavioural intervention. You know the pattern, I don't need to spell it out, a few buzz words will serve - kinesophobia, catastrophising, fear avoidance of exercise, baseline, individualised, small incremental increases, symptom focusing, sleep hygiene, yada yada blah blah.

The shiny new version will have some variation of face to face, online, group, individual, number of weeks, number of sessions, types and timing of exercises, multitudes of questionnaires, and so on, but it's essentially exactly the same every time.

In today's case it was for very broadly defined Long Covid, but it could equally have been for ME/CFS, MUS, enduring symptoms, somatic symptom disorder, functional disorder, conversion disorder, persistent physical symptoms, and for all I know not-eating-enough-pancakes disorder and staring-at-sparrows syndrome.

The premise is the same, regardless of syndrome category: healthy people stay healthy if they exercise, have a regular sleep and daily activity patttern that accords with current cultural norms, they don't catastrophise about every little symptom and they think positive thoughts.

The logic continues - people with symptoms that we, the superior all-knowing clinicians, don't understand, must therefore be behaving wrongly or thinking wrong thoughts. Doctors deal with real diseases and traumas that we understand, so we must not let these non conforming psychobehavioural miscreants contaminate real medicine, we must get some low status therapists to deal with them.

The next step in logic - these low status therapists must find new ways to repeat the same strategy we've been using for at least 35 years, so we can pretend we are purveyors of the latest cutting edge treatment for the miscreants so they will get back to work or at least have the decency to stop bothering doctors.

And so, for the gazillionth time, funding is provided for a clinical trial, and another batch of victims is invited to partiipate in the farce.

It's groundhog day, corporate amnesia, a system problem, stepping on the same rake a gazillion times, ....
In fact it is INSANITY.

Does it occur to clinicians, clinicians organisations, research funders and health care funders that there is no other treatment for any condition that has been subjected to so many clinical trials over so many years? What drug company would expect their drugs to have dozens of clinical trials funded ever year for 35 years for the same drug?

Do the funders even realise the trials they are funding are the same as hundreds of others? Can you imagine the MRC, NIHR, NIH and all the other major funders in the world agreeing to fund hundreds of trials of the same drug that has already been shown to be ineffective or only weakly, subjectively and temporarily statistically but not clinincally effective every year for decades?

What the f--k is going on?

Can someone with better creative writing skills than me turn this rant into a publishable in mainstream media and medical journals article that will wake people with power up to this insanity?
 
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Can someone with better creative writing skills than me turn this rant into a publishable in mainstream media and medical journals article that will wake people with power up to this insanity?
It's very well written as is.

If you wanted help polishing it up or rewriting it with a more detached tone for publication in the media I could give it a shot. Obviously it might take me a little while.

It would depend where it was going to be submitted what would need doing to it. I wouldn't feel confident in my ability to shape something for publication in a medical journal.

As is it would work very well as a blog post and might gain some traction online.
 
I don't have better creative writing skills than you.
Let's face it, there are simply too many psychologists. There's was a shortage of work for them once the ME/CFS gravy train dried up. Fortunately Covid came along, so now they can keep their pointless careers going by wheeling out the same junk therapies for Long Covid. It will not stop, until governments decide to stop funding this rubbish, and universities go back to being elite institutions for the few, whilst everybody else does some kind of technical training, and learns to build houses etc.

My husband has been sent to a Long Covid clinic for breathing problems. It is a complete waste of time. Endless phonecalls and zoom chats to discuss how he is feeling. Nothing meaningful at all. Breathing problems continue. Fortunately it has all come to a screaming halt, because the woman who runs the Long Covid clinic.... has now been signed off permanently sick. I wonder is she will be forced to do talking therapies, to cure her of her sickness beliefs etc. ? Perhaps she could talk to herself?
 
Dear @Trish, my writing skills are lousy, my english is getting worse, but your "rant" has ideas that I can relate too a lot.
I once enjoyed psychology, read C.G. Jung for "fun", all of it. Even did a psychotherapy course, just out of interest.

And now the therapists are deciding on their own, without seing me, what's supposed to be wrong with me and all of us. Everyone must have the same problems.
Your buzz words keep ringing through my tinnitus, leading to cacaphony.

Throw out rehabs, fysio's, psycologists and psychiatrists to start with. No more funding for papers from that lot about ME/CFS/LC.

Only come in when the patient asks for their help as an individual with a problem.

The doctor can't find anything wrong? Seek better and you will find more.
2 x CPET, tilt table test with doppler, NK-cells, CD4/CD8, tryglicerides, etc, etc
No need to psychologise a physical disease.
Between the ears, yeah, literally.

My rant over.
 
Does it occur to clinicians, clinicians organisations, research funders and health care funders that there is no other treatment for any condition that has been subjected to so many clinical trials over so many years? What drug company would expect their drugs to have dozens of clinical trials funded ever year for 35 years for the same drug?

Do the funders even realise the trials they are funding are the same as hundreds of others? Can you imagine the MRC, NIHR, NIH and all the other major funders in the world agreeing to fund hundreds of trials of the same drug that has already been shown to be ineffective or only weakly, subjectively and temporarily statistically but not clinincally effective every year for decades?
I don't think we'd ever get an honest answer, or even an honest off-hand comment, but there's something about that bizarre framing of "not medical, not psychiatric, not psychological either, some combination of all of those" that, mixed with the same framing of "not a cure, not a treatment, it's rehabilitation, it just works", simply shuts down all the normal processes and rules that are supposed to prevent this from happening in the first place.

There's this odd idea, fake obviously, that rehabilitation is not a treatment, even though of course it is, but in the absence of treatments, it can be safely assumed to work, does not need evidence, also is backed by decades of experience and evidence, but also still needs more evidence, but actually evidence does not really matter because everything is personalized, custom to each individual, although, really, it's all the same generic copy-paste stuff, so generic that every study and trial is basically 95-99% identical.

It's basically acting like an extra-judicial process in which it is affirmed that it follows the law precisely because it is not subject to the law, as the law does not apply in this case, while being respected. As you say, and I increasingly am becoming shrill in repeating, it is completely insane, and precisely insane in a way that makes all discussion impossible.

Although it's not as if there's ever an actual discussion of this. Lots of patient token involvement, the rest is simply two mutually conflicting realities: the patient perspective and the mix of lies and bullshit that is the official line. We can go back 5, 10, 20 years in time and nothing changes, not even a bit. It's the same identical loop.

It's all completely illegitimate, but there is no process to do anything because it's extra-judicial, more aptly extra-medical, and therefore subject to no constraints. If this were anything but medicine, if it were commercial products or services, they would be subject to advertising laws and forbidden from saying those things, but it doesn't apply here, because it's nothing. It's exempt from such constraints because it's a medical issue, but it's not a medical issue. Totally insane.

So we'll never get answers because it's not subject to any real process. It's medical, but not subject to medical regulations, or even the most basic professionalism. It's psychological, but also not subject to the most basic obligations that regulate therapy (lying to patients in therapy is obviously not allowed). It's more in the well-being/coaching category of things, but all decided by physicians and arbitrarily put into motion by regulated health care professionals, who are exempt from every other normal regulation and rule meant to prevent this because it's just some wellness coaching, or whatever.

It's not possible to beat insanity, so there is literally nothing we can do against it. It's shadow boxing, the shadows can punch us at will and knock us down, but we can't even see the shadows because the lights are off, to hide it all, even though it's happening in a very visible and public process, there is far more evidence of how harmful this nonsense is than there was evidence for the harms of tobacco by the end of the trials in which they were made to pay a small fraction of their profits in fines.

I watch the latest daily insanities in politics and world affairs, and they perfectly mirror the rot and corruption we see here. It's not similar, it's identical. It's really maddening.
 
Does it occur to clinicians, clinicians organisations, research funders and health care funders that there is no other treatment for any condition that has been subjected to so many clinical trials over so many years? What drug company would expect their drugs to have dozens of clinical trials funded ever year for 35 years for the same drug?
It is incredible particularly given that analysis that was done quite a few years ago, (I remember Brian Hughes talking about it when he wrote his 'Psychology in Crisis' book, ) showing that a very high percentage of the research that had formed the basis of so much in psychology was unreproducible.
 
What drug company would expect their drugs to have dozens of clinical trials funded ever year for 35 years for the same drug?
Reminds me of that Cochrane review on exercise for chronic low back pain. There were like 270 trials already and new ones kept coming so the authors couldn't keep up and review them all. In total there were like 400 trials on this topic! This obviously has nothing to do with science.
Exercise therapy for chronic low back pain (Cochrane review), 2021, Hayden et al. | Science for ME
 
Reminds me of that Cochrane review on exercise for chronic low back pain. There were like 270 trials already and new ones kept coming so the authors couldn't keep up and review them all. In total there were like 400 trials on this topic! This obviously has nothing to do with science.
Exercise therapy for chronic low back pain (Cochrane review), 2021, Hayden et al. | Science for ME
Reminds me of that Cochrane review on rehabilition post-Stroke that @Utsikt recently posted: https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web...1858.CD001920.pub4&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=
 
I think I know the trial you're referring to, it involved an "app" reporting?

These "app" based protocols to me also seem to be a side effect of AI slop. Anyone can slap together an app now for tracking symptoms. It's just the same old with a new spin, throw an app in the picture and now you've made it high tech! This is now a trial of the future, it can be done at home! Could these possibly also just be a paper for the resume as well?
 
Reminds me of that Cochrane review on exercise for chronic low back pain. There were like 270 trials already and new ones kept coming so the authors couldn't keep up and review them all. In total there were like 400 trials on this topic! This obviously has nothing to do with science.
Exercise therapy for chronic low back pain (Cochrane review), 2021, Hayden et al. | Science for ME
And yet there are at least as many trials of rehabilitation for ME/CFS, even more when going for the generic concept of "chronic fatigue", like Cochrane did, but most 'systematic reviews' only ever look at a couple dozen at most, and they do so in a way that completely hides the fact that most of those trials are so bad they aren't even worth looking at.

This is what NICE and IQWIG (Germany's NICE equivalent) did and it revealed how bad the situation is, but it changes nothing, there have easily been 50 trials since then, most of them tiny pilot trials, which is transparently fake since they keep doing the exact same thing anyway.

This has been one of the most baffling parts of this bullshit, and it's happening all over again with LC. There is this idea where pilot trials lead to small trials lead to large trials, which then get analyzed, compared and reviewed ending up with systematic reviews, which are supposed to collate everything, and it's just not happening. The reviews are happening, but they only feature a small enough number to do an easy review.

It's a system of rules and exemptions where the rules don't matter at all, but it's entirely justified on the basis of being governed by rules. It's absolutely bizarre that no one gives a damn about any of this.
 
I’d like to do one of those TV jokester type of tricks, where we listed the endless ruminating and obsession with a disproved theory, magical thinking, gaslighting, paranoia etc to some big cheese like Simon Wessley and got them to diagnose it….then revealed it was BPS. Maybe Philomena Cunk is too surreal, Ali G is too old hat.
 
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