Ligaments and tendons

AliceLily

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I think my ligaments and tendons are caught up in the ME. I've had an aching hand this last week and it feels like any repetitious use like typing on the keyboard easily causes an effect. I'm also having a longer bout of a shoulder joint that feels like it could dislocate if not careful. I also have body wide feeling of ligament, tendon soreness.

I wonder if our pain symptoms are coming from ligaments and tendons that are not as stretchy as they should be and causing pain in ME?

I still have to learn the difference between ligaments and tendons. Will try to get a grip!

What do others think? And do you have these things happening too?
 
Ok, so ligaments connect bone to bone for stability of joints restricting excessive movement and tendons connect muscle to bone facilitating movement by transmitting force from muscle to bone.

I can't get my head around that explanation for tendons. I feel like I want to reword it so I can picture it better.
 
This isn't a bad picture showing how a tendon connects a muscle to a bone:

Screenshot 2025-05-29 at 00.26.29.png

They don't half hurt when you damage them badly, and they don't heal as fast as muscle either (haven't got such a good blood supply).

The main way they get irritated is over-use injuries like your typing example, accidents, and people trying to do things for which they haven't got enough muscle strength (though sometimes they might damage their ligaments instead).

I'm prone to overuse symptoms as well, but I think it might be more to do with joint flexibility than ME/CFS. I can sit quite comfortably with my shoulder in a position that some people probably couldn't manage at all, which will cause nerve impingement and tendon strain if I try to do any work.

Unfortunately I'm an idiot, so I do. I forget I need to avoid practising playing my whistle with my right shoulder falling over, so I keep ending up with tendon strain and ulnar nerve impingement. :rolleyes:
 
I think my ligaments and tendons are caught up in the ME. I've had an aching hand this last week and it feels like any repetitious use like typing on the keyboard easily causes an effect. I'm also having a longer bout of a shoulder joint that feels like it could dislocate if not careful. I also have body wide feeling of ligament, tendon soreness.

I wonder if our pain symptoms are coming from ligaments and tendons that are not as stretchy as they should be and causing pain in ME?

I still have to learn the difference between ligaments and tendons. Will try to get a grip!

What do others think? And do you have these things happening too?

I feel exactly the same. I have written about it here, I think. It's like my body cannot properly heal any injuries to soft tissue. I have issues that started 10–15 years ago that will not resolve. And, yes, any repetitive use makes things much worse. I have a problem with the soft tissue around the base of my right thumb and it has been going on for 7 years now. Typing makes it much worse.
 
I feel exactly the same. I have written about it here, I think. It's like my body cannot properly heal any injuries to soft tissue. I have issues that started 10–15 years ago that will not resolve. And, yes, any repetitive use makes things much worse. I have a problem with the soft tissue around the base of my right thumb and it has been going on for 7 years now. Typing makes it much worse.
Yes, I also have that one too with my left thumb base. It plays up every so often and boy does it hurt trying pull up pants especially. I forget to protect it.

I've had the ligament, tendon problem since I was 20 years old. This was the time that I think I got something that might have made me vulnerable to getting ME years later. It could all be connected or two different things. I personally thing it's all connected to ME but I could be wrong.
 
Long been my view that a much more careful and comprehensive (and unprejudiced) examination of the mechanical aspects of ME/CFS bodies and their functioning (or lack of it), with a particular eye on non-linearity, might find some good basic clues.

It is arguably the most under-investigated component of the condition, which is odd seeing as movement in general is the one of the main things we have so much trouble with.

Which is why I always say that it is important for patients to have a good chair, good bed, and good footwear. They are not fixes, not solutions. But in my experience they matter. Some of the few things that have helped.
 
I'm trying to recover from tendinopathy from playing a computer game too long. I'm doing the recommended exercises, and handsawing firewood ( I think that should boost healing), but it does take time. I think in my case it's less ME-related and more just getting old.
 
Reviving this thread (having just now discovered it) to share some of my own experiencing upon which I've recently had cause to ruminate.
Over the last few years, I have become aware that my body seems to experience physical strain quite differently and, while I struggle to articulate what is happening with any precising, the sense of it is that where I once experienced the consequences of strain in my muscles, the discomfort now seems more tied to the tendons and ligaments.

In days past, I would regularly over do things either with regard to intensity - as when prematurely adding a few too many kg to a bench-press - or duration - as when pushing a run a few extra miles or extending a hike by a few hours. In either case, the felt consequences were usually quite similar - there was a diffuse ache throughout the affected muscle or muscle group which would be exacerbated (sometimes to an excruciating degree if the over-exertion has been especially extreme) and it was always quite clear that there was widespread damage of some sort throughout the tissue. Now, when I over do things (which sadly, might involve little more than righting a bin that has fallen over or picking up my 4kg cat), my muscles seem little affected, but I experience acute pain around the neighboring joints and attached tendons. Movement itself is sufficient to cause the discomfort, no activation/tensing of the muscle is required. It really is a quite different sensation, almost closer to what one experiences when forced to remain immobile in a cramped space for overlong at times. At others, it reminds my of the difficulty I used to have with iliotibial band syndrome.

While lack of activity might seem at first glance a plausible explanation, I am inclined to discount it as I am fairly certain that this new kind of discomfort emerged months if not years before I started reducing my activity level - I recall not only being surprised and confused but also aware that it was actually changing the way that I moved. This occurred both with large movement (walking, running, lifting) and small (playing guitar, drawing/writing, typing). No real idea what to make of it; just another one of those things that reshapes your life and becomes such a defining characteristic of the experience of this condition that it seems as though it must mean something, even as it receives little to no recognition or attention from those outside.
 
the sense of it is that where I once experienced the consequences of strain in my muscles, the discomfort now seems more tied to the tendons and ligaments.
I find it very difficult to determine where pains or other feeling originate. I recently hurt my back, and really have no idea whether it's muscle, connective tissue, or spinal disks ... or something else. I'm guessing that's a common failing in humans; our feedback system is simply messy.

So, in such cases, can you be sure that your actual physical cause of the feelings changed, or could it be the perception of those signals? Without really clear diagnostic results, it's just guessing. Even clear diagnostic results could be wrong.
 
I’m severe and experience that it takes a lot of time (weeks) to get used to different kinds of strain on my body. I doesn’t enable me to do more in total, so the adjustment period lowers my effective capacity.
 
So, in such cases, can you be sure that your actual physical cause of the feelings changed, or could it be the perception of those signals? Without really clear diagnostic results, it's just guessing. Even clear diagnostic results could be wrong.
I certainly cannot distinguish and did not mean to imply that I have any such capacity! I am very aware that my ability to identify the causes or even location within my body of the various unpleasant sensations I perceive is highly flawed. I can only say that I have experienced a marked shift in the way that I experience discomfort following particular types of strain and exertion.
 
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I think my ligaments and tendons are caught up in the ME. I've had an aching hand this last week and it feels like any repetitious use like typing on the keyboard easily causes an effect. I'm also having a longer bout of a shoulder joint that feels like it could dislocate if not careful. I also have body wide feeling of ligament, tendon soreness.

I wonder if our pain symptoms are coming from ligaments and tendons that are not as stretchy as they should be and causing pain in ME?

I still have to learn the difference between ligaments and tendons. Will try to get a grip!

What do others think? And do you have these things happening too?
I seem to have the same problems at times.Luckily it isn’t all the time.The weather effects me like that.
 
I feel a bit hesitant to share this, as it is kind of an embarassing story and not how ME/CFS usually develops, but repetitive use of a keyboard by simply playing a computer game is actually how ME/CFS symptoms started for me about 10 years ago.

The first symptom was a burning sensation in both wrists, which I treated as tendonitis. After one week it took over both of my achilles tendons, finally the pain was spreading throughout my whole body, including tons of other symptoms such as dry and burning eyes, light sensitivity, severe fatigue, insomnia etc. After dozens of extremely unhelpful doctor's appointments I kind of self-diagnosed with fibromyalgia which seemed somehow appropriate. It took another few months for me to realize how unsustainable physical exertion was for me. Every attempt to put physical activity into my existence exacerbated my symptoms and I was forced to give in within days. Some things worsened immediately, some things only a day later.

Now, after 10 years, I still fulfill all of the International Consensus Criteria and on top deal with this mysterious tendon/ligament issue which not only hurt a lot, it rather feels as if the whole composition of my connective tissue changed, leaving me with stiff, hard to bend and crackling fingers. It has not worsened but stayed exactly the same over all these years and I somehow don't believe it's permanent damage and might even be reversible somehow, it just feels very different and I've never seen these kind of symptoms being described.
 
My original symptoms also started as repetitive stress symptoms from keyboard and mouse overuse.
I consider triggering ME on muscle or tissue damage as reasonable. I think it's immune activation that triggers ME, regardless of what caused the activation. The specific type of activation (t-cells, or b-cells, or whatever) probably matters.

That brings up a question: have there been many claims of ME being triggered by type I allergies? What about t-cell mediated reactions? What about brain injuries or infections that would activate glia directly? A statistical comparison of triggering on those different immune activations might reveal something.
 
I feel a bit hesitant to share this, as it is kind of an embarassing story and not how ME/CFS usually develops, but repetitive use of a keyboard by simply playing a computer game is actually how ME/CFS symptoms started for me about 10 years ago.
I noticed this same sort of thing in my early years of ME/CFS when I didn't know I had it but knew something was very wrong. Repetitive use was causing a problem I hadn't experienced before.

You probably already had ME/CFS and were experiencing the effects of exertion and repetition.

I think for some of us there is some involvement with tenderness, pain with ligament, tendons. I think I started out with something like reactive arthritis but I don't get the swollen joints nor do I have HLA B27 thing which I have been tested for. GP never helped me with trying to sort all that out 40 years ago and I was young and thought I just had some rare thing happen to me that no one understands and it was something I was going to just have to live with for the rest my life.

I got ME/CFS ten years later and always have wondered whether it set me on a path to ME/CFS due too previous change in homeostasis. I really don't know.
 
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