Maureen Hanson talk at OMF Symposium 2019

Why does Hanson now think that it's a virus? I thought the researchers had moved away from that idea.

Anyone who was there or has watched the talk (I can't) - @Michiel Tack @Wilhelmina Jenkins @Ben H - did she say why she thinks it's a virus?

I'm confused because I thought that OMF were focusing on the metabolic trap theory. Why are they simultaneously promoting the idea that it's a metabolic trap and the idea that it's a "genius virus"?

 

Also, check out Hillary Johnson's twitter on Hanson's conclusions. Lots of excitement in that group.

 

I think that different researchers, even within the same network have different theories. You could see that at the conference. And none of the theories have been proven yet, so it’s a question of putting all theories on the table and doing the work to see what hold true. We just don’t know yet.

 

@Sarah94 as someone who has been around the ME community for almost 3 decades, I can tell you that this is nothing new. It just becomes circular, unfortunately.

 

Well that's just depressing.

 

Don't let it be. If it is circular, keep in mind what goes around comes around. This talk of infectious eatiology also early on took hold with MS. Then it fell out of popularity and was replaced by an autoimmune theory. Now there is talk once again - after 5 decades - of an infectious cause at play behind MS.

So, although the return to a viral cause for ME/CFS may have a deja vu feel to it, that does not change its potential import. Still, the onus is on Hanson and her supporters to prove it this time.

Personally, I like it when anyone stops focusing on downstream effects, and concentrates on the source. It's refreshing.

 

Yep

 

I think they'd be on safer ground claiming that it's triggered by an "exposure" to something. That would cover viruses, bacteria, parasites and fungi, as well as things like toxins - all of which could occur in a localized "outbreak." I believe the leading theory on GWI is toxic exposure (which might include some of the vaccines that the soldiers received).

 

I don't think they are talking trigger at all. I think they are speculating about an active infection, one that years ago caused outbreaks, but is now endemic in many places.

 

That’s what I remember of her talk but see @Sing ’s post on the other thread which seems to dispose of this idea.


ETA:#87 https://www.s4me.info/threads/3rd-a...ty-sponsored-by-omf-7th-sept-2019.9297/page-5

 

Context matter of course, what was being said or what was being shown on screen when 'genius virus' was mentioned? Or was it heard wrong, might it have been 'genus virus?'
...
Based upon the HJ tweet thread it seems that it is one 'clever' enough to hide, then a question to her about 'foolish vs genius virus,' how EBV fits role as 'genius' one.

 

This however seems less ambiguous:

"I suspect there is a central cause of the disease, I agree with Maureen....ultimately we want to figure out what that organism is and get rid of it. Many people are trying to sort that out." Ron Davis

 

And how else to interpret this? 'Courageous' and calling a 'spade a spade' implies saying some uncomfortable truth telling.

"I loved Mareen's courageous talk. I loved that she called a spade a spade..." Ron Davis

 

A discussion of the history of outbreaks fitting Ramsey's definition and the current patient symptoms, they are the same disease with variations in the virus, that this is now endemic (autoimmune / genetic disorders don't go 'endemic'), and significantly why else would there be the statement:


Maureen Hanson: we need to tell the public that they need to worry about ME

 

I am not sure i got right what Maureen Hanson suggests. She hypothesises that there is a virus that hides very well -thus we cannot find it- and is responsible for ME symptoms ?

If this is so, the unknown virus activates after other infections (e.g EBV ) take place? And what about patients that got ME after a medication or during a highly stressful period ?

 

Is it clear to anyone how these "genius" viruses, if that is what was said, differ from John Martin's old idea of "stealth" viruses? He seems to have been largely ignored. Were his ideas properly independently tested before they were dismissed?

 

Any stressor can make it worse. Anyone might be infected but the immune system can keep it in check. Then a stressor strikes and it reveals.

 

I thought her point was that whatever it is that triggers ME it is very “clever” in that it makes us very ill but leaves us looking healthy most of the time, meaning no one worries about catching ME because it doesn’t look real/scary. So no one bothers trying to find or fight whatever the trigger is, leaving it to wreck havoc in peace.

The virus or whatever is a genius for successfully making us very ill while convincing everyone one else that it doesn’t exist, including either disappearing after triggering or hiding where no one can find it.

Just my interpretation of what she said. Looking forward to seeing it again with fresh eyes, I was very tired the first time.

 

Do we have any examples of this?

Well this comes to mind.
________________________________________


XMRV infection of Rhesus macaques
17 February 2011

The first detailed study of infection of nonhuman primates with the retrovirus XMRV reveals that the virus establishes a persistent infection characterized by infection of multiple tissues. Viremia (virus in the blood) is low and transient, with proviral DNA detectable in blood lymphocytes. The results show that the Rhesus macaque can be used to study XMRV infection, transmission, vaccines, and antiviral drugs.

Onlamoon, N, DasGupta, J, Sharma, P, Rogers, K, Suppiah, S, Rhea, J, Molinaro, RJ, Gaughan, C, Dong, B, Klein, E, Qui, X, Devare, S, Schochetman, G, Hackett, J, Silverman, R, & Villinger, F (2011). Infection, viral dissemination and antibody responses of Rhesus macaques exposed to the human gammaretrovirus XMRV Journal of Virology

http://www.virology.ws/2011/02/17/xmrv-infection-of-rhesus-macaques/comment-page-1/

 

Are you familiar with the history of John Martin? He is a fraud, there is no such a thing as a 'stealth virus'- it was his own creation.

A good friend of mine was watching NBC news when reporters tracked him down and tried to interview him in his driveway to confront him about his bogus lab (which was shut down btw), and he literally ran out of shoes into his house.