ME/CFS Epidemiology - sex ratios, female predominance

Discussion in 'Epidemiology (incidence, prevalence, prognosis)' started by Simon M, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Simon M

    Simon M Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    UK
    Moderator note: Some posts have been copied and some posts have been moved from ME Epidemiology - prevalence and peak ages of onset

    Copied

    That’s a good list and I’m sure that’s the right way to go to really interest people in the field. I think two other findings are worth adding to the list:


    The fact that, consistently, around 80% of patients are women. This is pretty unusual, I think. And while more females receive a mental health diagnosis, I thought that typically this was around 2/3, rather than the 80% same for any CFS.

    Also, the remarkable “two peaks“ age profile of the honours, with the first peak in adolescence/early adult hood (with the gender difference emerging during puberty) in the second pic starting in people‘s thirties. It’s hard to explain this finding, but it surely a sign that something unusual is going on here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:05 AM
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    14,363
    Location:
    London, UK
    Copied

    Yes, I agree. I guess the female predominance has been known for a while so is not so much 'progress'. The double peak would follow point 1. I am not sure that it has been replicated across geography but the emergence of gender predominance in adolescents certainly has.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:05 AM
  3. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Belgium
    Copied
    I think there have only been decent epidemiological studies in the US and the UK. A study on the European mainland, by Euromene for example, would be useful.


    I think there's only one study that reported 80% of ME/CFS patients being female; the Wichita, Kansas study (Reyes et al. 2003) which reported 83,2%. Jason et al. said it was more around 70% (23/32) and the study by Nacul in the UK found a much lower figure of around 50%. So I don't know if there's clear differences between the % being female in mental health diagnoses.

    I thought that was just one study (Bakken et al. 2014). Does it show in other publications as well?

    I would add another finding that has been confirmed by multiple research teams: the prevalence of ME/CFS is increased following infections such as EBV-infection. I think Wessely and others initially thought this was a spurious finding and that ME/CFS patients just wanted to make sense of their symptoms by making that connection with infections. But Peter Whites study showed that the prevalence of ME/CFS increased following EBV-infection while this was not the case for mood disorders such as depression. That seems like an important finding to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:06 AM
  4. Wilhelmina Jenkins

    Wilhelmina Jenkins Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Copied
    I’m wondering - taking into account that all of the statistics for this disease are fairly unreliable since studies are small, definitions differ, etc., which statistics do you all consider the most reliable? I am always uncomfortable quoting almost all of them.

    I do believe, for example, that there are more women with this disease than men since every study indicates that and it’s consistent with other immune-related diseases, but I’m uncomfortable with the percentages.

    How close are we to accurate on any of the stats?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:00 AM
  5. Simon M

    Simon M Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    952
    Location:
    UK
    Copied
    The Nacul 2011 Prevalence study found around 80% female cases for ME/CFS (Table 4 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-9-91). The huge Norwegian study gives an incidence ratio of 3.2 female cases for every male case (76% female). And just about every mecfs study ever done, covering many thousands of cases, have 75%-80% female cases (I always check). So there does seem to be solid evidence that the female ratio is higher than for psych cases.

    As @Jonathan Edwards said, there is at least one UK study replicating the adolescent age peak. As you say, there is just the Norwegian study for the adult peak but that Norwegian study is based on the highly-rated Norwegian health database which covers the National population and is regarded as one is the best sources of health data in the world. It included nearly 6000 cases of ME/CFS. And it confirms what is widely reported by clinicians, an adults peak in the 30s (the data show this is more pronounced for women than for men).


    So I think the age peak is pretty robust as well, with strong enough evidence to cite to outside researchers as a reason to take interest in the field.

    Agreed, this is also replicated and worth reporting.
    Good point. There's also the famous Dubbo study which also shows significant rates of CFS following Ross River virus and Q-fever. Simon Wessley ran a study that find no increase in rates of CFS following common infections, but it was seriously flawed, not least in being hopelessly underpowered to detect credible rates of CFS. So we still don't know about a link between common infections and ME/CFS.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:11 AM
  6. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Belgium
    Interesting.

    Sorry about my mistake. I was misguided because of a graph that was reported in Valdez et al. (2018), the study that tried to use ICD-codes in the US to estimate the prevalence.
    upload_2019-7-10_11-42-48.png
    They probably looked at table I which gives the demographics of all patients in the clinics studied and I made the same mistake in checking. I also didn't realize the Norwegian study was based on such good data. Thanks for pointing that out.
     
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    28,375
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    From memory, Q fever fatigue syndrome in the Netherlands is reported to affect more males than females. Many researchers and clinicians think Q fever fatigue syndrome is different to ME/CFS, but I think the evidence for that is weak, and stems at least partly from prejudices that the hardworking (mostly male) farmers and abattoir workers couldn't possibly be getting that whiney CFS thing. Obviously, the incidence of Q fever is likely to be higher in males because of the way it is transmitted, so that may at least partly account for the different rates in Q fever fatigue syndrome that follows it.

    Despite the detailed analyses and hypotheses claiming otherwise, I think that at least some of the cases of Gulf War Illness are the same as at least some of the cases of ME/CFS.

    Perhaps also there are different societal pressures on males and females to identify, or not identify, as having ME/CFS.

    I think there are more than just biological factors influencing the reported male:female ratios in ME/CFS. Although it looks like it's more common in females, I'm not 100% convinced yet.
     
  8. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    28,375
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Copied
    In the case of the Norway Patient Register study that Snow Leopard linked to, the database has data from Norwegian hospitals and outpatient clinics (not GP clinics).

    Given some of the ME/CFS criteria require children only need be ill for 3 months to be diagnosed and given the Norwegian children seem to be diagnosed in a hospital clinic, they are more likely to have shown up in the NPR (hospital) database quickly. In contrast, the adults need to have been ill for 6 months before diagnosis and then they can be diagnosed by a GP. They might undergo some evaluations in the hospital but might not be given a diagnosis there. Therefore they may take much longer to show up in the NPR database with a diagnosis of ME/CFS. Some of those adults may recover from their post-viral fatigue illness and never be recorded in the Norway Patient register as having ME/CFS, whereas the children who recover quickly probably are recorded.

    Therefore, the database may be over-representing the number of people being diagnosed in the 10 to 19 age range relative to those diagnosed at later ages. Just possibly, for some women with ME/CFS being cared for by their GP, the first time their illness is recorded in the NPR might be when they are pregnant (edit - or are thinking about starting a family).



    Here's a possibility to explain a higher rate of ME/CFS in women post-Giardia infection - higher rates of Giardia infection in young women.
    Demographics of Giardia infection in Bergen, Norway, subsequent to a waterborne outbreak, 2008, Robertson et al
    I'm not saying these things absolutely have affected the reported male:female ratios and age ratios, just that maybe biology (as in hormones or immune system) isn't the only reason for the reported patterns.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:18 AM
  9. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,180
    Location:
    Canada
    Copied post
    I would think that being the largest effort of its kind, the IOM report would likely be the most accurate.

    Which does not mean it is entirely accurate but likely the most. There is consistency around those numbers as well so if they are off it's likely to not be by much in %.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:18 AM
  10. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    676
    I agree that the ratio is not necessarily convincing, but I am thinking that doctors expect it in women and not in men, so more women get diagnosed (and computers learn to expect this so predict that outcome).

    When we know the vast majority of people are undiagnosed (and in other studies, people are overdiagnosed but oddly enough probably still not diagnosing many cases, as they may exclude people with nurological signs for example), it's hard to generalize demographics.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2019
    Subtropical Island, Hutan and Sean like this.
  11. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Belgium
    I was thinking, if this finding would turn out to be true, perhaps it tells us something about the heterogeneity of ME/CFS.

    If a predominance of 80% of women is rather unusual in medicine, it might make it unlikely that ME/CFS is a broad collection of different illnesses. Cause it would be quite a coincidence that practically all those illnesses have that unusual predominance of 80% of women. That would be like multiplying an unlikely chance to get a much lower chance. You want to make that multiplication as little as possible because the chance becomes improbable very quickly. If a ratio of 4/5 women is really unusual in medicine, it would be statistically more reasonable to assume that there are few rather than many of these illnesses making up ME/CFS. And if some of those underlying illnesses have a lower female/male ratio, than it would require the other illnesses making up ME/CFS to have an even larger predominance of women than that 80%, which also seems unlikely.

    So perhaps the fact that almost 80% of ME/CFS patients are women forms a weak and uncertain but nonetheless an argument against large heterogeneity of illnesses within the ME/CFS label.

    PS: Sorry if this doesn't make any sense at all. It's really hot in Belgium right now...
     
  12. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,581
    Location:
    USA
    Roughly 80% of those diagnosed with autoimmune diseases are female. This article puts the figure at 77%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328995/
    I'm not sure if that's collectively or if it holds true for each autoimmune disease.

    On the other hand, ~80% of autism cases are male.

    Without a biomarker, though, other factors could tilt the apparent prevalence by sex in ME/CFS. For example, doctors might diagnose women more readily than men, and/or men might actively avoid a diagnosis to a greater degree than women.

    The M/F ratio may also vary by severity. There might be an increased percentage of men among very severe cases, but I have no idea if that's been borne out by any kind of study.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    Hutan, Annamaria, andypants and 7 others like this.
  13. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,616
    Autism presents differently in females and support services are only now getting to grips with this- very slowly. (similar to how females present differently with heart attacks etc - the whole gender ratio may be changing as more research becomes gender balanced) The male /female ratio may be subject to change in future.
     
    Hutan, Lidia, Joh and 12 others like this.
  14. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,478
    This study found that 30% of those diagnosed with “CFS/ME” were male which is a little higher than what tends to see in ME/CFS patient organisations. I couldn’t find the number directly on a quick search but calculated it from a female:male ratio of 2.35:1.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28358988/?i=5&from=white crawley collin


    Trends in the incidence of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia in the UK, 2001-2013: a Clinical Practice Research Datalink study.

    Collin SM, et al. J R Soc Med. 2017.

    Authors
    Collin SM1, Bakken IJ2, Nazareth I3, Crawley E1, White PD4.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  15. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,180
    Location:
    Canada
    Meh, Crawley and White. Unreliable.
     
    Annamaria and Medfeb like this.
  16. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    676
    Additionally, many autistic people don't see their autism as a disease. If they have GI problems, they want medical treatment for that. But their autism is just a different way of thinking, like being an introvert or extrovert. They want services and supports to figure out how to navigate a world that doesn't appreciate or understand them, but they don't see autism as a medical issue.
     
  17. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,860
    Location:
    Australia
    Copied post
    Another 2.4 year prospective study. (mean baseline age of entire population was 44.9, 57% women)

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3427300

    New onset 0.08%/year, mean age of 48.0. 56% of new cases were women.

    "Lifetime diagnosis at baseline" was 1.3%. (note this was self-reported)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:37 AM
  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    54,282
    Location:
    UK
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:37 AM
  19. beverlyhills

    beverlyhills Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    92
    Copied post
    Study was cohort participatory and not observational and generally reflects who participates in these studies uncompensated. I do not have any comments on it directly other than the context I posited above.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:38 AM
  20. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Belgium
    Copied post
    I think this study just shows that self-reported diagnosis of CFS is not very reliable. It does make me wonder who all those people are that report a diagnosis of CFS because there seems to be more of them than what one would expect.

    Could you explain what you mean by this? The study said that "The sample population of the Lifelines study is broadly representative of the total Dutch population." Mean baseline age was 44.9 with a large standard deviation of 13.2. I think it includes all ages older than 18.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2024 at 2:39 AM

Share This Page