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News article - The crippling brain condition doctors say is all in your mind

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Sbag, Apr 14, 2019.

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  1. Sbag

    Sbag Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Daily Mail article about a girl - “ diagnosed with functional neurological disorder, or FND. It affects the central nervous system – and, for decades, has been dismissed by doctors as being ‘all in the mind’. And that leaves FND patients’ fighting to be taken seriously, in a similar way to those with chronic fatigue syndrome, or ME.

    This is also thought to be a fault with the central nervous system, and affects 250,000 Britons. ME causes physical and mental fatigue as well as painful limbs, loss of concentration and digestive issues.

    Distressingly, as no physical cause can be found, ME was commonly misdiagnosed, often as depression, stress or another mental health problem, as symptoms can seem similar.

    Now, leading experts have dubbed FND ‘the new ME’ and warn that, for similar reasons, thousands of Britons may not be receiving appropriate treatment.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ft-18-kayaking-world-champion-wheelchair.html
     
  2. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hysteria by any other name...
     
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  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Which is psychotherapy - not at all like the sort of treatment used for depression or stress or another mental health problem. Yes, I see.
     
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  4. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Some predicted that functional neurological disorder would be promoted as replacement for ME.

    Presumably they would stop diagnosing ME and instead prefer to give a FND diagnosis, so that patients can continue to be given CBT. Until the FND patients revolt much in the same way we did.
     
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  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    This
     
  6. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Already being done - a few FND with CF being diagnosed in Lothian ( the land of John Stone)
     
  7. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The cognitive-linguistic gymnastics these clowns will indulge in just to avoid simply saying 'I don't know', never ceases to amaze me.
     
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  8. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Its not about i don't know
    Its about i think its this reality denying house of cards that i choose to believe over people or facts.
     
  9. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  10. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just some cherry-picking from the Stone/ Sharpe/ Carson paper (2005):

    Collapsing weakness
    midline splitting
    Movement disorder
    Dizziness

    Speech and swallowing symptoms

    Visual symptoms

    Investigations

    CONCLUSIONS: ASSESSMENT AND DIAGNOSIS
    edited to add: see also https://www.s4me.info/threads/myste...-health-new-scientist.8932/page-2#post-160325

    https://www.s4me.info/threads/myste...-health-new-scientist.8932/page-2#post-160380

    https://www.s4me.info/threads/chara...2019-oconnell-wessely-et-al.8270/#post-145802
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  11. Tilly

    Tilly Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  12. Sid

    Sid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There clearly is a push to eventually reclassify everything they can't understand as FND. The underlying belief being that there is only one functional disorder but with different manifestations which gives rise to myriad diagnoses.
     
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  13. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Stone probably moved away from some of the stances displayed in the, in my opinion, very muddled paper from 2005 co-authered with Sharpe.

    Among more recent publications, his sadly unsuccessful effort to have FND categorized in the ICD neurology chapter and not as a dissociative disorder (if I undestood this properly), might indicate such an altered stance. In any case, I think these efforts are to be appreciated.

    But to me, Stone still seems to be not clear about what he is saying and meaning. So at least one continuity appears to be his muddled writing.

    Another point is, that neurological diseases or head injuries can be (and I think often are to a higher percentage than non-neurological diseases[?]) accompanied by emotional and mental issues and if needed, patients should openly be offered assessment and treatment for these issues, too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
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  14. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Re. the slide above. I have wondered before how many instances of malingering are the result of a dysfunctional healthcare-system/patient relationship where the patient is not taken seriously and tries to be taken more seriously by exaggerating their problems.
     
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  15. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  16. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We still have two threads on this but not sure if they should be merged.

    I agree. I think Stone's approach to diagnosis may be very fair. FND is a very real problem and it makes sense to talk of it as a software rather than a hardware problem. Even software involves physical changes - but in both computers and brains it probably involves abnormal patterns of normal types of microscopic change in information storing structures. (The same thing applies to autoantibody formation in a sense.)

    Where Stone still seems muddled is in the treatment he is recommending (I think) and maybe in putting things across to journalists as if the same old 'mind interacting with body' story were involved.
     
  17. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    ... but an illness:
    https://www.neurosymptoms.org/limb-weakness/4594358036

    There seems to be a difference between disease and illness?

    (I have to admit that I don't understand the difference. The German language has the terms "Krankheit" and "Erkrankung", but I'm not sure if they mean different things.)
     
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  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Moderator note:

    This thread is on a second article on the same topic as another thread.


    The two threads will not be merged, as this would result in the two discussions being mixed up together, as posts in a merged thread appear by time of posting.

    This thread is now closed, please continue discussion on the other thread.

    Mystery illnesses reveal the power of our minds to influence health, New Scientist
     
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