PIP Tribunal

Wonko, This is so awful that I can't think of what to say that could be of comfort.

Just on the offchance - I'm wondering if anyone has contact with the East Anglia radio programme that did something on UEA and ME - maybe to do with IiME's (?) new dept at the Uni. Hoping someone will make sense of what I am trying to say?

@Wonko a huge :hug:
 
Wonko said:
Thank you @Trish but no.

I don't have the capability any more, I can't think.

It was expected, given the way the whole thing has gone, but no variation in points suggests that my evidence counted for nothing, again as expected.

I can no longer even attempt to jump through their rigged hoops
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@Wonko, I do understand this. It is so unfair that those in the most need are often the least able to fight their case. I am so sorry.
 
It's okay @Nellie

I knew when I opted for a paper hearing that it would cut my chances from 60+% down to under 20%, but as it happened I wouldn't have been able to attend even if I wanted to, let alone to any positive effect.

I wasn't expecting it to be fair, just fairer.

I can live without the money, I don't go out, I don't drink, don't smoke, have minimal expenses etc., don't get me wrong, it would have been handy, made life a little more comfortable, given me more options, but it wasn't/isn't essential.

It's more the apparent complete refusal to acknowledge me, when these people are supposed to be there to balance a corrupt system, that stings.
 
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Hi @Wonko
It's more the apparent complete refusal to acknowledge me, when these people are supposed to be there to balance a corrupt system, that stinks.
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This, and as all too often happens, to the cost of their health for far too many other seriously ill folks. Yours is yet another example of how moving the goalposts, on a regular basis is used to suit the ideological needs of our Government in their quest to deny disability; moving the goalposts with regard to their continued reference to "most in need."

Apologies on quote correction, knew what you meant, and couldn't resist .. ;) and likewise, so sorry on hearing your news.

I've not long since been able to get back on the forum, and have only just picked up this thread this morning. I've just recently received a copy of my home assessment report following a move from DLA to PIP .. a complete 'hatchet' job, through 'wilful' misinterpretation, is error-strewn, and a prime example of how many of my health issues discussed at the assessment, have been 'selectively' omitted from the report. I've been in touch with the DWP earlier this week, and would sincerely hope that my clarifications help the Decision Maker to see some sense, and include my evidence as part of their decision, which had not been made at that point? They'll do their thing, and I'll do mine, I guess. :)

Hopefully, I'll be able to create a further thread outlining the problems faced, and how I will appeal my decision with reference to the PIP assessment guide part 2 - the assessment criteria (yet to review part 1 and 3; these refer to the assessment process and 'so called' health professional performance, respectively), in the hope it will help other patients, yet to face this bloody awful process?

If you are able, could you confirm whether or not, the Tribunal Decision you've received, includes any references to points in PIP law, in coming to their decision?

Wishing yourself and all, improved health and every happiness. John :)
 
@Wonko, it's a relief to hear that you will not be left destitute. But you should have what you are entitled to to make your life more bearable. This decision against you makes me so sad and angry.

Hearing all these awful experiences makes me realise just how rare and incredibly lucky I was in getting awarded PIP last year.

I am now just at the beginning of going through the same process again, this time for my daughter who also has severe ME.

I really feel for everyone in this situation. It is so stacked against us and so draining. I went through the appeals process about 14 years ago for Incapacity Benefit. I got so much sicker from the stress during the 6 months I had to wait for my appeal. It's inhuman.
 
JohnM said:
If you are able, could you confirm whether or not, the Tribunal Decision you've received, includes any references to points in PIP law, in coming to their decision?

Wishing yourself and all, improved health and every happiness. John :)
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It doesn't, it's fairly short, basically only says I suffer from type 2 diabetes and have "some memory problems" and thus don't qualify for an award - so no mention of my ME or ASD, and mentons at least twice how detailed my submission was, at the same time as obviously disregarding it.

As I said above, or implied, they appear to have just rubber stamped the ATOS/DWP version and anything said by me, or anyone who doesn't directly, or indirectly, work for the DWP appears to have been completely ignored.

I have a strong suspicion that a DWP rep may have been there to ensure this, but no actual knowledge this is the case.

ETA- I was wrong, at the end they refer to rule 2 and rule 31 of the tribunal procedure rules 2008 stating that as they are confident that the case can be heard fairly and justly on the papers there was no reason to delay.

Which is odd, as if they felt that, why ask me to attend?
 
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@Wonko .. thanks kindly for your speedy reply.

More's the pity that you are unable to progress this further, and fully understand your reasons for not being able to do so.

It comes to something when they cannot even recognise your ME and ASD, in arriving at their supposedly 'considered opinion' of your detailed case. Likewise, at this point in the appeals process - that they feel there is no need to refer to points in law and/or guidance issued based on those laws, to justify their decision .. grrrrr! :banghead:

John

ETA to replace choosing with not being able to do so
 
@JohnM

This is only the decision notice, which arrived this morning which given the hearing was on Monday isn't too bad.

I could possibly obtain more information if I request a statement of reasons, or whatever the tribunal equivalent is, but it seems unlikely this would help clarify things (DWP and ATOS ones don't, at least not in my case, more words but no more information).

However if it would be useful to you, supply information, procedural, evidence of bias, sloppiness etc. that you would find useful I could attempt to request it (the letter appears to be fairly straightforward, it's getting it to them that may be an issue).
 
@Wonko

Thank you for your kind offer, but there is no need to put yourself out any further on my behalf .. your health is the priority. As I say, I'll try and create another thread at a more appropriate time, likely after I've received my DWP decision, which should be due within the next fortnight.

You be taking good care of yourself, and do what you need to do to improve some, as will I.

John :)
 
Hi Wonko,
I am so sorry to hear this. I am sure that ATOS have ME down as a psychogenic illness, or MUS.

On my friend's assessment report there were so many errors and they kept saying: "does not have a mental health condition, and no input for same".

Part of my response was: "neither Z nor her doctors ever said she did have a mental health illness, so of course she does not have any input for it"

The most offensive bit, probably, was on the last page of the PA4, in a box marked "For Office Use Only". It says "Musculoskeletal disease (general) / Chronic pain syndrome /Fibromyalgia. Her ME was not even mentioned!
My question to them was along the lines of 'Has the physio rediagnosed Z on the basis of a 30 minute assessment? Is her view more accurate than her Pain Specialist and Immunology Consultant who have been seeing her for years?'
Her main reasons for needing PIP are the effects of Fibromyalgia and ME.

If they do consider ME as a 'real illness', they certainly have No understanding of PEM or Impairment of Cognitive Processing.
 
Z's husband is keen to make a formal complaint to DWP, which we may well do. I will also be sending a summarised version to Carol Monaghan/Laura Pidcock MPs.

I am awaiting, with interest, the minutes from the last Forward ME meeting as the Chief Medic from Capita was going to be attending!

@Russell Fleming, do the ME Association plan on collating more info/case studies on the farce that is PIP, especially for those with ME? @Action for M.E.?
 
MEMarge said:
Hi Wonko,
The most offensive bit, probably, was on the last page of the PA4, in a box marked "For Office Use Only". It says "Musculoskeletal disease (general) / Chronic pain syndrome /Fibromyalgia. Her ME was not even mentioned!
My question to them was along the lines of 'Has the physio rediagnosed Z on the basis of a 30 minute assessment? Is her view more accurate than her Pain Specialist and Immunology Consultant who have been seeing her for years?'
Her main reasons for needing PIP are the effects of Fibromyalgia and ME.

If they do consider ME as a 'real illness', they certainly have No understanding of PEM or Impairment of Cognitive Processing.
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"For office use only" mine was "Musculoskeletal disease (general) | Chronic pain syndromes | Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)"

Did have a 'chuckle moment' on reading that, using my mobility scooter, I try to "get out the flat 4-5 times per week. This is for the sense of mortality." :rofl:
 
Luther Blissett said:
Whose 'sense of mortality'? Are you going round corners on one wheel scaring pensioners or something? Ben Hur style hubcaps?

Is there mobility scooter equivalents to the Mods and Rockers?

Or, does 10mph fill you with a special existential dread?

You always seemed so mild mannered!
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10mph Luther .. if only! 4mph for me, as was only model type I could afford. My musical tastes are far too eclectic to fit in with any mods and rockers theme. Now if you remember some passing comments I'd made in a post on the 'other place', I only have to raise an eyebrow, to incur my wrath on other folks, and am too laid back (literally, all too often) to 'do existential dread'. ;)

I've been promising myself that I'd get a false exhaust fitted with 'go-faster' stripes to impress the ladies, but if the DM (Decision Maker) accepts HP (Health Professional) assessors report in full, be another dream on hold/and or shattered. :banhappy:

Apologies on going off thread @Wonko, but Luthers' comment was funny, 'n hope your in need of a laugh as much as I am.

Wishing everyone improved health and every happiness. John :)
 
I am really sorry @Wonko to hear that you did not get any recognition from the Tribunal of your issues re your PIP appeal.

While I have never applied for PIP (or DLA) for myself, I know a considerable amount about the system via applying for ESA for myself and also doing benefits advice work for others for 5 years on a forum (not doing now). I have also helped my son who is severely mentally ill to apply for IB then ESA, and DLA then PIP, so I read up a lot at the time, as it was very stressful with the changeover.

With my son's case, his problems are considerable, and surprisingly he was not forced to have a face to face either for ESA or DLA or PIP and he has not seen an assessor for over 10 years. His PIP decision I felt was wrong and I helped him to ask for a reconsideration.

Much to my amazement he was increased to the highest level of Daily Living, but he lost his mobility award following DLA to PIP and it was not reinstated despite good evidence. We did not appeal due to the stress involved and that he had at least received more money from the Daily Living component.

I am just sorry to hear that you did not receive the justice that you should have done.
 
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