1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 15th April 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Sex and gender differences in primary care help-seeking for common somatic symptoms: a longitudinal study 2023 Ballering, Rosmalen et al

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Andy, Mar 31, 2023.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    21,962
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Objective
    Women are reported to consult general practitioners (GPs) more frequently than men. However, previous studies on sex differences in help-seeking behavior for somatic symptoms do not distinguish between sex and gender, do not account for sex differences in presented symptoms, and are frequently conducted in clinical settings, automatically excluding non-help seekers. Therefore, we aim to assess the independent associations of sex and gender with primary care help-seeking for somatic symptoms in the general population.

    Design and setting
    Records from the longitudinal population-based Lifelines Cohort Study were linked to routine electronic health records from GPs.

    Subjects
    Participants reporting new-onset common somatic symptoms.

    Main outcome measures
    Associations between sex and gender, operationalized via a novel gender-index, with primary care help-seeking for somatic symptoms and differences in the strength of the association between gender and help-seeking for somatic symptoms between women and men.

    Results
    Of 20,187 individuals with linked data, 8325 participants (67.5% female; mean age = 44.5 years [SD = 12.9]) reported at least one new-onset somatic symptom. Hereof, 255 (3.1%) consulted the GP within 6 weeks of symptom onset. Female sex was positively associated with consulting the GP (OR = 1.78; 95%CI = 1.13–2.80), whereas feminine gender was not (OR = 0.67; 95%CI = 0.39–1.16). The latter association did not differ in strength between men and women. More paid working days are negatively associated with help-seeking (OR = 0.95; 95%CI = 0.91–0.98).

    Conclusions
    The results suggest that female sex rather than feminine gender is associated with primary care help-seeking behavior for somatic symptoms. Nevertheless, clinicians should be aware that gender-related variables, such as mean paid working days, may be associated with help-seeking behavior.

    Open access, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02813432.2023.2191653
     
    Peter Trewhitt and Hutan like this.
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,936
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand

    These researchers seem to have a weird understanding of the word 'gender'.
    How could female sex and feminine gender have such drastically different odds ratios?

    They say
    but in any modern society, the roles and behaviours of women and men are going to be highly overlapping for most things.

    This is how they worked out someone's gender:
    It's past my bed time, but, I have to read on in this paper, to find out what century these researchers think they are living in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2023
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,332
    Location:
    UK
    I had a quick look through and had the same reaction. Very strange. I wonder what the men defined as feminine on the basis of their roles think of being classed as female gender!
     
  4. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,936
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    I think the word 'somatic' should be banned. I never know what people mean when they use it, and I'm not sure these researchers did either.

    Yeah. I think they should have stuck to their analyses of 'does being a homemaker make you more likely to seek medical help? (apparently no); 'does being a health professional make you more likely to seek medical help?' (also apparently no). I'm not sure what gender health professionals are supposed to be. Their 'novel gender measure' surely just added confusion, rather than disentangling anything. Sadly, they don't tell us much at all about what qualifies a person to have a 'feminine gender'. I would like to know what food is feminine and what food is masculine.

    I can't see much that is useful in this study.
     
    Milo, alktipping, bobbler and 2 others like this.
  5. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Once I dated a guy who, when being offered vegetarian options at a restaurant etc, tended to say: I am a man, I eat meat. And there was this other time when I was drinking a glass of beer and the guy I was talking to looked at me with horror, said that women should never drink beer, took my glass away and bought me a cocktail instead. Maybe it is that kind of logic. If you eat salad and like gin and tonic, you better go and start identifying as female. :alien:
     
    Simbindi, SNT Gatchaman, Sean and 7 others like this.
  6. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,329
    Makes me think of the 'meat and potatoes guy' theory.
     
    Peter Trewhitt likes this.
  7. Shadrach Loom

    Shadrach Loom Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    London, UK
    Is it possible that you had accidentally time travelled to the 1970s?
     
    Simbindi, alktipping, Hutan and 5 others like this.
  8. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,670
    Does that mean that a man with ME, a predominantly female condition, should identify as female?
     
    Simbindi, Sean, alktipping and 7 others like this.
  9. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    Possibly! Maybe I should do it again, find young Simon Wessely and warn him that this whole CFS thing he will have an interest in in the future, will really not turn out the way he will expect it to and it is really not worth bothering with it. :whistle:
     
    Simbindi, SNT Gatchaman, Sean and 9 others like this.
  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,279
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Why would seeking help with symptoms be a genuine problem. The NHS are concerned enough about people delaying seeking help for possible cancer to be advertising on TV saying if something doesn’t feel right get it checked out, one of the adverts focuses on getting any concerns checked out so you can rule out cancer for your peace of mind. How do oncologists, cardiologists feel about fellow doctors who judge patients for “help-seeking”.
     
  11. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    UK
    I've never heard of that. I grew up being fed meat and potatoes quite often, although there was never enough meat and there was far too much potato for my liking.
     
  12. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    8,329
  13. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    UK
  14. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,211
    Location:
    Australia
    IIRC, his first degree was in art history. If you could convince him to stick with that for his career we would all be very grateful. :thumbup:
     
    Wyva, Arnie Pye, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  15. It's M.E. Linda

    It's M.E. Linda Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    918
    I then wondered whether foods in French and German share the same gender, but, of course, you’d also have to factor in the foods in German which are neuter too.
    Then also add in all the other languages that use masculine/feminine :nailbiting:

    Oh dear, failed at first my first, easiest, example - “the apple”

    Der Apfel (m)

    La pomme (f)

    :thumbsdown:
     
    Milo, Mij, Arnie Pye and 3 others like this.
  16. It's M.E. Linda

    It's M.E. Linda Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    918
    I’ve often thought exactly the same @NelliePledge when I’ve seen those adverts.

    Not cancer worries, but heart - I’ve had increasing concerns over a racing heart beat on exertion (or even sitting quietly on the sofa with my legs up). Following 2 years with a Fitbit to “prove” the phenomenon, I eventually persuaded myself to ask my GP for a second referral for PoTS investigations again last year - after being gaslit by a Consultant in 2017 (I knew he had now retired to private work).
     
    NelliePledge, Simbindi, Hutan and 2 others like this.
  17. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,670
    Interestingly the person doing the eating seems to be masculine in both French and German
    • le mangeur
    • le consommateur
    • der Verbraucher
    • der Verbraucher
    Does gender change according to action, are we all gender fluid as we flow through the day?
     
    Hutan and Trish like this.
  18. Wyva

    Wyva Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,391
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    These nouns in German can be turned into feminine (eg der Verkäufer, die Verkäuferin, etc) and I checked and die Verbraucherin seems to exist too.

    Things are not always so clear though, das Mädchen (the girl) is neuter for example.
     
    Hutan, Trish and Peter Trewhitt like this.
  19. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,670
    Then I guess in German as in English the actor is treated as male, unless otherwise specified: a generic person is ‘he’ whereas a specific individual is ‘he’ or ‘she’ as appropriate. That’s a shame as as I quite liked the idea of everyone shifting continuously between genders.
     
    Mij, Wyva and Hutan like this.
  20. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,095
    Location:
    UK
    A few years ago I had a copious GI bleed. It went on for several years. Initially I was worried that I might have cancer. But due to the total incompetence and disbelief I met with I thought I might bleed to death or die of heart failure before diagnosis because the bleeding was getting worse and worse. It took three hospitals three and a half years to find the source of that bleed (a 4cm polyp with very fragile blood vessels). There was no urgency from anyone. I bought my GP records after that and discovered that a doctor at the first hospital I had been seen by had minimised what I said to "Patient has bleeding piles".
     
    Milo, Hutan, Sean and 2 others like this.

Share This Page