1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 1st August 2022 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Visual Imagery and chronic pain - new study at Bath (Jo Daniels supervisor)

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by Sly Saint, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,668
    Location:
    UK
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1554722285289979905



    https://bathpsychology.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_ePbqSTMMaOX8hgO
     
    shak8, oldtimer, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  2. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    41,505
    Location:
    UK
    More nonsense.
     
  3. Suffolkres

    Suffolkres Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,302
    shak8, bobbler, oldtimer and 5 others like this.
  4. hellytheelephant

    hellytheelephant Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    841
    For crying out loud! I have lost count of the number of psychology based research projects that I have been offered the chance to participate in ( via Chronic pain forums).
    .
    Surely someone needs to set up some actual science based, evidence based research that does not involve my 'attitude' to the idea of pain, how I see being in pain, and my 'negative thoughts' around being in pain.
    Even a small child could understand that pain feels bad and doesn't make you happier!:banghead:
     
  5. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,412
    Location:
    California
    i have never had a visual image of my pain (FM). I assume the researcher thinks they will change such visual images and thus change the pain.

    However, due to my incredulity viz a viz this article, I've started to yell at my pain.

    I feel better already.
     
  6. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,047
    Location:
    Canada
    Joke's on them, I have full aphantasia (no mind's eye) and have not had an internal voice in years, I literally don't think of anything most of the time, even less so when in pain. It's more of a raw stream, I have no executive function at all, can't actively think about things.

    In a way this is reverse ink blot thing. Of course such a study has zero meaningful value, I guess that's what academic freedom* is all about: the freedom to just waste academic funding on trivial nonsense.

    * Somehow does not actually extend to studying discriminated diseases, academic freedom for me, not for thee
     
  7. oldtimer

    oldtimer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Do people in pain really have images pop into their heads?? I hate to think what they might be. Definitely not puppies and kittens.
    I'm in a fair bit of pain everywhere all the time. Without painkillers to take the edge off a little bit, all I experience is all-encompassing pain in a "raw stream". Great description @rvallee .
     
  8. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    586
    I reached out to Prof Jo Daniels and she assured me that this study did not receive external funding as it is a student project. Thankfully, no public research funding is being wasted on this.
     
    alktipping, rvallee, Lilas and 5 others like this.
  9. bobbler

    bobbler Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    565

    Yeah. You can tell these are done by people who didn't pay attention in their psychology degree to disabuse their presumptions before either. I've had pain and I've had chronic itching (yes the afraid to go to sleep because without will you will scratch holes in your own skin level). Quite the opposite works. I have to concentrate on it and focus on actively 'holding it in a place' like an isolated bundle or a buzzing noise I'm trying to hear past (just an analogy as it is worse than that but it is the opposite of 'ignore it' and I'm trying to communicate that), it is hard to describe but it is like seeing it in a map and mentally with my eyes squinted zeroing right in on it and then just getting used to adding the other stuff you have to do on top of it. If I tried to do the opposite way around that would be a disaster, you'd notice it more because you weren't using a part of your brain to keep it from interfering. That was just to get on with my job. It took huge energy - because it would. Science always knew this (as did old science on it). So not great for our illness. It wasn't perfect and won't work with spasms. Long list of issues. And yes I was a phobe of taking tablets and stuck trying to keep a job and not being able to risk something that might make my brain more fuzzy and not wake up more.

    But my point is that the b......cks of the idea of 'distraction' is just housewife nonsense - nothing worse than someone hitting your hand with a hammer then jabbering on at you demanding answers to inane questions on top of you trying to cope with the searing through you overwhelming pain. It divides your resources and energy and stamina and sounds worse than nonsense as it takes down your walls further on a short energy fuse.

    In men for short term pain it is well known that swearing is one of the best things - so banning externalisation is rather suspect. Those who haven't ever experienced chronic pain (which I can only assume those who work in the area are in that boat) foolishly sometimes seem to assume you 'get used to it' ie it gets better over time, but the horror of it is that it gets worse and your resources to deal with it get used up further. So I find this sort of thing horrifying from a psychological harm potential of suggesting 'working harder at it'. HUmans do have limits - but that seems to be missing from certain paradigms.

    All indeed (I agree) from the b....cks background of a kid falling over not hurting themselves and so not reacting and making them scared they might have. And then their foolish parents thinking they go away and decide not making something that doesn't hurt turn into the kid being upset from the parent works when the kid actually hurts themselves, then taking it to even more idiotic extremes. That is, I assume, where it has come from. Someone should make these people do science before they get funding and show their working as to why it isn't anti-logic and to be certain they are open to the opposite being proven with their design therefore.

    If they are insisting on not giving their kid any belief when they hurt themselves properly they should also take a hard look at their degree again. ANd basic humanity. The psychological harm of invalidation and blanking someone who reasonably expects some flinch of 'yes I can see that would hurt' to deliberately not give that well.. let's look that one up to. Because it is also relevant here. And we should let these people pretend their research is independent from that science. They should know that from their degrees and be factoring it in. I struggle with how they are supposedly ticking both boxes with what they suggest so they are running risks even if their counterintuitive idea worked. It isn't even like they can claim that is cross-discipline as they must have had to do psychology in general first. I find it foxing they don't have to discuss potential psychological harms vs benefits.
     
  10. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,668
    Location:
    UK
    Interesting that they don't include ME/CFS in their list of potential participants.......
    Oh, I forgot. we only have fatigue.
     
    alktipping, shak8 and Trish like this.
  11. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    447
    I used to try self-hypnosis for pain, but had trouble going into trance. Once, though, I was having a neurofeedback session, and while talking to the therapist, I spontaneously went into trance. She could tell, probably since my eyes appeared unfocused and my breathing slowed way down, so she guided me through an exercise of visualizing what the pain looked like and then putting it into a hot air balloon and sending it away. For the rest of that day, all the pain was gone, but I could not replicate this experience afterward. The trance state is powerful, but can be hard to achieve.
     
    JemPD and Trish like this.
  12. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,665
    Location:
    Australia
    I can't shut mine up. :rolleyes:
     
    shak8, Trish and chrisb like this.

Share This Page