Vitamin B6

[Mij]

Simon never linked the pain in his hands and feet to multivitamins – but a pathology test did
A growing number of consumers are presenting with symptoms linked to high levels of vitamin B6, pathologists say, while the supplement industry goes unpoliced

When Simon Bogemann’s hand began cramping around the steering wheel in a claw position on his commute from Geelong to Melbourne, he began to worry.

Bogemann, then 43, was also getting pins and needles in his feet and fingers every night in bed, and while sitting down during short lunch breaks at work.

His GP put it down to a lack of magnesium and recommended a supplement, in addition to the multivitamin he was taking for a chronic condition.

Bogemann was unaware that both capsules contained added vitamin B6, too much of which could lead to the symptoms he was experiencing – a type of nerve damage known as peripheral neuropathy.

A blood test recommended by his dietician showed his levels of B6 were 36 times the recommended range.
LINK

 

[JemPD]

yes b6 also seems an oft combined add on to a lot of things but you only see it when you check the small print ingredients eg 5HTP often has it added, also magnesium.

 

[Creekside]

Aside from some treatments/supplements that cause problems if stopped, I highly recommend anyone who takes something long-term to occasionally stop taking it to see whether it's still helping at the dosage you're taking. Just because 50 mg/day of <whatever> worked well for you at one time, doesn't mean that the same dosage is optimal 5 years later. I've had several symptoms that responded to supplements, but some months later, when I tested how I did without them, the symptoms remained gone. Pointless to waste money on something that you no longer need, and, as the above example shows, potentially risky.

 

[Hutan]

Hypophosphatasia is a condition with high vitamin B6 levels.
Its symptoms overlap with fibromyalgia and, to some extent, ME/CFS.
If you have low ALP levels, this paper suggests that it could be worthwhile testing B6 and PEA levels.
Could Some Patients With Fibromyalgia Potentially Have Hypophosphatasia? A Retrospective Single-Center Study 2023 Injean et al

Hypophosphatasia (HPP) is a rare disease characterized by incomplete or defective bone mineralization due to a mutation in the alkaline phosphatase (ALP) gene causing low levels of ALP. Disease presentation is heterogeneous and can present as a chronic pain syndrome like fibromyalgia (FM). Our objective was to determine if there are any potential patients with HPP in the group of patients who were diagnosed with FM. Antiresorptive therapy use can trigger atypical femur fractures in patients with HPP.

If HPP is suspected in a patient with a low ALP level, vitamin B6 levels and phosphoethanolamine (PEA) levels in either urine or serum (which are elevated in HPP) should be checked after alternative reasons for a low ALP level have been ruled out.

 

[MeSci]

yes b6 also seems an oft combined add on to a lot of things but you only see it when you check the small print ingredients eg 5HTP often has it added, also magnesium.

Yes - Healthspan do several supplements which have B6 added, and I therefore avoid them, as I have enough B6 in what I'm already taking.

 

[bicentennial]

Every time I asked the nutritionists who work for the manufacturers they say mega-dosing is scientifically formulated and needed because we all know the daily requirements are set too low and tests showing harm were done on rats using mega-mega-mega doses we'd never consume so totally irrelevant, and anyway the body sheds whats not used.

Not every nutrient has a set upper and lower limit determined by a government. Looks like anyone can order a bulk mix of trace nutrients from a lab and bottle it up and sell it, but maybe there is more quality control than I know. Some dangerous conditions show high or low levels, and some people can't regulate levels for other reasons.

If the applied science for testing nutrients were not so very contradictory at every turn, I'd say anyone needing or taking nutritional supplements, fortified foods or full meal replacements needs to be routinely monitored and well-advised, as well as full safety labelling made mandatory, and prompt referral when needed. Such attentions are accorded to people who are known to need supplementation for ever-more

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Sounds like people should be a bit sceptical if GPs start recommending random supplements.

 

[Yann04]

Sounds like people should be a bit sceptical if GPs start recommending random supplements.

How I wish people realised this.

 

[Amw66]

Genetics affect B6.
Vitamin B6 is a co-factor in many biochemical reactions. A person with MTHFR variants may experience disruptions in the metabolism of vitamin B6 because of the impaired conversion of pyridoxine (vitamin B6) to its active form pyridoxal 5′-phosphate (PLP) due to lower folate availability .

 

[bicentennial]

Genetics affect B6.

Vitamin B6 is a co-factor in many biochemical reactions.

A person with MTHFR variants may experience disruptions in the metabolism of vitamin B6

because of the impaired conversion of pyridoxine (vitamin B6)

to its active form pyridoxal 5′-phosphate (PLP)

due to lower folate availability .

Thats 5 related things with 2 unkowns all in a row:

> diverse MTHFR

> less of the available folate

> so B6 as a co-facor

> can't properly activate

> into PLP

< just one of many liable reactions

Its so complex the biology of it. The molecualr interplay gets more and more intricate. Sometimes I can more or less follow it, then inbetween my brain fails to make enough connections and recoils from any complexity, then I'd much rather it was simple. I suspect there may be a simple outline to sum up much complexity, but that won't help engage with it from a truncated interface. So I thought the labs +/- the clinics might forge the way for me but they don't know that much either because all each one knows is different from all the other one knows

 

[bicentennial]

... I've had several symptoms that responded to supplements, but some months later, when I tested how I did without them, the symptoms remained gone..

IF assuming the symptom was a sign of some deficiency or unmet need then is it possible that a supplementary top-up can put some recycling system back in order so no more of the nutrient is lost so no more symptom of some lack?

Or might there be other reasons for the sufficiency eg some extra use of the nutrient depleted it until enough was provided and the extra use stopped ?

Also I once had some feeble indication that some nutrients if stored in the liver may be lost while the liver is inflamed. Given so much fluctuating disruption of so many bodies with no obvious tissue damage I guess it might be flares of disruptive but repair-able inflammation lay waste to what’s held in tissues, but then I can show markers of inflammation which can be clinically ignored

 

[Arnie Pye]

Aside from some treatments/supplements that cause problems if stopped, I highly recommend anyone who takes something long-term to occasionally stop taking it to see whether it's still helping at the dosage you're taking. Just because 50 mg/day of <whatever> worked well for you at one time, doesn't mean that the same dosage is optimal 5 years later. I've had several symptoms that responded to supplements, but some months later, when I tested how I did without them, the symptoms remained gone. Pointless to waste money on something that you no longer need, and, as the above example shows, potentially risky.

I would always suggest to anyone considering taking supplements to always check before starting the supplement what the symptoms of deficiency and toxicity are. If someone has none of the symptoms from either the deficiency or toxicity lists it makes me wonder why someone would decide to take it. And if any symptoms are possibly caused by toxicity then avoid the supplement anyway.

Anyone who goes ahead and takes a supplement should check themselves against those deficiency and toxicity lists every month or two or three as long as they are taking the supplement.

It is always worth noting that vitamin B6 can cause neuropathy in cases of both deficiency AND toxicity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Deficiency

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome

 

[Creekside]

I would always suggest to anyone considering taking supplements to always check before starting the supplement what the symptoms of deficiency and toxicity are.

Known symptoms of deficiency and toxicity. Researchers keep discovering new effects/symptoms of assumedly well-understood nutrients.

 

[bicentennial]

Known symptoms of deficiency and toxicity. Researchers keep discovering new effects/symptoms of assumedly well-understood nutrients.

same with any relatively safe (modern) pharmaceutical medicine I was offered in the standardardised response to a known problem - within a year or so the harms got discovered, also it often happned that trying out some heavly advertised food or drink packaged or bottled by a factory coincided with some recall due to a heavy contamination

 

[Sly Saint]

Aussie issues dire warning over very common supplement after his world was turned upside down​

A young Australian has claimed a B6 supplement has left him with pain and cognitive issues, as a law firm launches a class action investigation against Blackmores.
Melbourne man Dominic Noonan-O'Keeffe, 33, began taking two supplements partly on the advice of health podcasters in May 2023.

Over the course of several months of using the company's Blackmores Super Magnesium+ and Ashwagandha+, he developed a range of symptoms associated with overexposure to vitamin B6.

Vitamin B6 is a nutrient naturally found in meats and plants, but has been added to off-the-shelf supplement ranges for its properties aiding metabolism.

Overconsumption of vitamin B6 can be toxic, though there is no consensus on the threshold for safe usage.

Mr Noonan-O'Keeffe's symptoms began as fatigue, nerve pain, migraines, and visual disturbances.

Nine months later, his stepsister asked if he was taking B6 supplements, as a colleague of hers had recently suffered B6 toxicity.

'It was a lightbulb moment,' Mr Noonan-O'Keeffe told the Sydney Morning Herald.
'I stopped all of my supplements straight away, got a blood test, and within a week, I had a diagnosis of B6 toxicity.'

He later discovered the Magnesium+ he had been taking contained approximately 29 times the recommended daily intake of vitamin B6.

The Frankston man still suffers numbness in his fingers, nerve pain in his neck, and reduced cognitive ability.

MSN

 

[Arnie Pye]

I've just realised I've already said all this in an earlier reply to this thread from a few months ago. Mods can delete this reply if they want to.

If someone starts taking a new supplement and develops new symptoms after beginning the new supplement wouldn't it be sensible to do some research on the ingredients?

Years ago (15 years?) I had neuropathy that derived from being low in B6. I took a B Complex product and after a few weeks the neuropathy went away. I continued taking the B Complex and after a few months I started developing neuropathy again. I did some research and realised that B6 was a likely cause of my renewed symptoms and stopped taking the B Complex. Within a few weeks the new symptoms had gone.

The symptoms of B6 deficiency are listed here :

Deficiency : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6#Deficiency

and symptoms of B6 toxicity are listed here :

Megavitamin-B6 syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Note that deficiency mentions a symptom of "neuropathy", and toxicity mentions a symptom of "peripheral sensory neuropathy".

If the man mentioned in the reply above wins his case it could backfire on anyone else who might have low B6.

 

[Creekside]

For anyone taking anything long-term, I recommend trying going without it (unless it's a medical necessity) or changing the dosage once in a while, to see whether it's still helping or if there's a new optimal dosage. Given how ME works (keeps changing), why take a supplement for years when it might have only had a benefit for the first week? The same applies to foods.