Watch out for the physio robots! - Guardian piece.

I can see a good role for the use of the internet/apps for physio, because my unrelenting experience of physio has been to be given a bunch of exercises that I can't remember and can't make enough notes on, when a video would be spectacularly useful and the obvious way to impart the info.

Also, hopefully an app would be less likely to parrot 'There's nothing to stop you getting better/Here is an unfeasible number of reps to do'.
 
Do we need modern AI for CBT wouldn't a variant of Eliza work (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA)?
I seem to remember one trial run over recent years which showed Eliza performed better than modern (this was a few years ago) LLMs in fooling people that it was human. Perhaps that was the start of some of the extra sycophancy of more recent models styles?
 
It very much captured the pompousness of the therapist turning everything into a question, I noticed this when I saw someone in psychoanalysis
It is how they avoid taking any responsibility for delivering something actually useful for the patient.

'Just asking questions.'
 
If human physios can so effectively be replaced by an app, it shows how trivial NHS physio has become.

There is no substitute for a human physiotherapist conducting a physical examination and assisting you to perform the exercises correctly by showing you on your body, but increasingly the NHS no longer offers these services. One appointment with a private physio resolved a disabling condition for a family member which two years of NHS engagement failed to address, because the purpose of the NHS service was to appear to give treatment without the cost of actually doing so.

After gutting healthcare into a kind of theatre (where professionals perform the role of someone giving care without actually having the resources to give care) we are now moving to the logical conclusion of removing the professionals from the performance.
 
There is no substitute for a human physiotherapist conducting a physical examination and assisting you to perform the exercises correctly

But how do they know, and how do we know, what exercises are of benefit and how to do them 'correctly'? There are no meaningful trials for most of these things. How did they 'find out' that they were useful or correct? People get better after seeing physios just as they get better for no particular reason quite often. Having worked for years with physios I never heard of them having any real evidence for an exercise being useful other than some other physio said it was good.

The NHS should not be wasting time and money on unproven treatments, in whatever form.

I worry that the myth that physios can do you good with exercises has done the ME/CFS community an awful lot of harm and is still doing so.
 
But how do they know, and how do we know, what exercises are of benefit and how to do them 'correctly'? There are no meaningful trials for most of these things. How did they 'find out' that they were useful or correct? People get better after seeing physios just as they get better for no particular reason quite often. Having worked for years with physios I never heard of them having any real evidence for an exercise being useful other than some other physio said it was good.

The NHS should not be wasting time and money on unproven treatments, in whatever form.

I worry that the myth that physios can do you good with exercises has done the ME/CFS community an awful lot of harm and is still doing so.
There are likely cases where this applies, very specific cases, but it's obvious that the promises of rehabilitation have been wildly inflated based on wishful thinking. It even almost plays a magical role: if you can't treat illness, then you can rehabilitate it, which is not a treatment, but also is. Based on... vibes, it seems.

Earlier this year, my father slipped on ice, and probably tore a ligament or muscle in his groin. Fortunately, no bone damage. He had to use a wheelchair for months. Once he was able to, he went to see physical therapists, who he had seen many times over the years. They advised a few exercises, but my father being who he is, he had the mentality that if a few exercises were good, then more should be better. And he overdid it a bit, while still slowly improving, the natural course of biology doing its thing. Then he reduced the exercises, and things got even better from there.

But he also has a few quirky beliefs, such as acupuncture. So he took an emergency appointment, literally spent 4h in traffic for it because it was worth it to him, and although he was already feeling better generally, he thought the acupuncture must have worked. He went back once, and cancelled his physical therapy appointments.

The passage of time did its thing. Had he only seen physical therapists, he would likely have attributed some of it to them. But he believes in acupuncture more, and so decided that it was that. Even though had he just done things at his own pace, moved when the pain was improving, it would have likely ended up all the same. Most people can figure that out with minimal knowledge and common sense.

There's very likely as much of this going on about acupuncture, and other alternative medicine, as with physical therapy. Not that the role is not needed in some cases, but the evidence seems generally very lousy, so it's very difficult to know what works and what doesn't, and there's obviously a heavy bias towards it being good, simply because it's meant to be good. The process is judged based on its intentions, not its results. As is tradition.
 
Not sure what is going on in NHS physio appointments but there is nothing my (private) physio does that can be replaced by an app. It's all with his hands. Sure there are some unhelpful exercise suggestions every so often, but not for the sake of it. He is very good. though. (Have never been to an NHS one.)

ETA: If someone had asked me I would have thought this would be one of the last things AI or apps could replace. I guess I don't know what is going on in these appointments. Don't they touch or treat the patients manually??
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom