A unifying theory for cognitive abnormalities in functional neurological disorders, Fibromyalgia and CFS (2018), Mark J Edwards et al.

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by adambeyoncelowe, May 8, 2018.

  1. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @adambeyoncelowe It's always good (if a bit nauseating) to know what this crowd is up to.

    Although I'm at the point where it's not enough to keep track of Edwards et al

    I'd like to point out, if you go to the bottom of the page you'll see that their funding came from Wellcome Trust, the MRC and some spanish funder I've never heard of.

    As far as I'm concerned Wellcome and MRC should be called out for funding this load of crap.

    Unified Theory :rolleyes::laugh: Even their wording makes it sound grandiose.
     
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is actually a really interesting study of unexplained cognitive deficits in medical researchers. It admirably demonstrates that if you want to see just how severe their cognitive deficits are get them to get a visiting Portuguese student to write a review article for an obscure offshoot of the BMJ and see just how bad a piece they are prepared to publish. It is an extremely reliable way of indicating just how little researchers understand what they are going on about.
     
  3. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    For me, its quite validating to see these researchers expose the true mindlessness of their ideas. I found it frustrating when we had a conversation about Edwards on PR a while back and some were saying he was heading up "real", "legitimate" research. Because he used some neuro-terminology that sounded convincing if you didn't look too hard.
     
  4. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    I've come to delight in this pic appearing at unexpected intervals in our discussions... Makes me smile more each time I see it. Like savouring a joke only we understand.
     
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  5. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Oh that's what it is. I thought it might be baloney, not knowing what either of them are or look like. I got the general gist anyway.

    Whilst it's on my mind, I thought I'd better google "poppycock" to see what it is and what it looks like too. I must confess I was rather worried about what I might find, but it's ok:

    upload_2018-5-10_15-1-28.png

    This thread is in danger of being seriously derailed.
     
  6. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's what Collins Thesaurus helpfully tells us about this paper:
     
  7. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah ah, may I add a bit of French analysis?
     
  8. Allele

    Allele Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I like this line:

    Functional cognitive disorder (FCD) describes cognitive dysfunction in the absence of an organic cause

    But of course they're not saying it's all in our minds.

    And for double top: absence of evidence...
     
  10. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh no, they never say it but the subtext is so clear it's as if they were screaming "all in your head".
    The fact they won't admit what they think but keep implying it loud (and jump on any patient that dare say it) is just really pervert. Lying to patients raises many ethical questions, but they're too patronising to even care.

    Being told what's best for us by people running loosy studies like this one is quite infuriating.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  11. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. But in this case, the evidence clearly shows the absence of their brains.
     
  12. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Subtext? The message is right there in figure 1: cognitive symptoms are the result of patients paying too much attention to functional symptoms.

    A lot of this functional/psychosomatic nonsense seems to be born out of an emotional need to silence patients complaining about symptoms that cannot (yet) be understood or treated.
     
  13. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree the message is quite clear, but they do not write "cfs is psychogenic" in full letters (they do not hesitate to do it for FND though).
     
  14. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's a certain irony when someone chooses a profession -- psychology -- where your everyday work is about attending to psychological matters and then you go on to accuse others of a psychological issue via over-attending to bodily sensations. One could accuse them of perhaps attending too much to psychological interpretations of whatever crosses their path.

    And I think the explanation does work on some people for a while ie they buy into it initially when it's suggested to them. Because when you are initially sick you may well attend to symptoms in an effort to understand what is happening to you-- to make sense of your own experience. Of course after a while it becomes painfully obvious that even if you stop attending to those symptoms they don't resolve.

    Sadly, at this point the theorists aren't interested in adapting their theory to the patients reality.
     
  15. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A bit like science has been, you mean.
     
  16. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The limitations section after the Discussion is worth noting. Throughout the paper "heterogeneous" crops up a lot. :)


    Limitations
    Evidence for the presence and characteristics of cognitive abnormalities in FNDs, FM and CFS is remarkably heterogeneous.

    Sample sizes were usually small, and a control group of healthy subjects was often lacking. In Vercoulen et al,28 objective cognitive impairment in a minority of patients with CFS was sufficient to drive between-group differences towards statistical significance. In these disorders, population heterogeneity means that small sample sizes and the use of average scores (rather than, eg, the proportion of individuals performing below threshold) might conceivably lead to false-positive results.
     
  17. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The question is - is it contagious?
     
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  18. Estherbot

    Estherbot Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Also selection criteria for ME/CFS are not discussed anywhere nor the magic phrase PEM.

    As a side note, I'veI've across quite a few people in my area are diagnosed as having ME/CFS but with psychological trigger such as a nervous breakdown rather than a viral or infectious one.

    This paper would seem to be be addressing that population.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  19. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    [​IMG]

    Yes?
     
  20. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Some seem to be far more prone than others.
     

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