Anyone tried Zoe - a nutrition app?

josepdelafuente

josepdelafuente

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
This is Zoe - https://zoe.com/

I'm definitely not suggesting it is a treatment for M.E, but I wonder if it might help some of us feel a bit less terrible generally.

I think it's an app, which by using data from stool & blood samples which you provide, and you logging everything you eat & drink, gives you personalised nutrition advice that will (hopefully) help anyone (not just people with chronic illnesses) feel better..
 
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josepdelafuente said:
This is Zoe - https://zoe.com/

I'm definitely not suggesting it is a treatment for M.E, but I wonder if it might help some of us feel a bit less terrible generally.

I think it's an app, which by using data from stool & blood samples which you provide, and you logging everything you eat & drink, gives you personalised nutrition advice that will (hopefully) help anyone (not just people with chronic illnesses) feel better..
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I wondered about this. I am all for a better microbiome. I’m also really run down had to take loads of antibiotics since Covid cause keep getting minor infections. A family member suggested this to me.

What is holding me back is that I really don’t like the Zoe guy. But I can’t remember details behind this. I think it was that he’s is very good on some subjects getting my hopes up and then very not good in others.

I’d also be interested to know if it’s a promising avenue of not?
 
I think their genera1 advice a1ways comes back to, 'Eat 30 different p1ant based foods (which inc1udes herbs and spices) a week, eat fermented foods (unpasteurised), avoid u1tra-processed foods etc.' Which is great genera1 advice, but hard for PWME to achieve due to energy 1imitations, being housebound, often unab1e to prepare fresh mea1s even if you can obtain the ingredients etc. It's particu1ar1y difficu1t for those on a 1ow income to eat to this standard.

They do say frozen or canned fruit and veg (without sugar and preferrab1y organic) wou1d sti11 'count' towards the 30 p1ant food goa1s, particu1ar1y if organic (as 1ess 1ike1y to have additives).

I'm unsure about a11 their persona1isation c1aims though. I guess if you have 1ots of spare money then there's probab1y no harm in it trying it out. Persona11y I'm on far too tight a budget and just put any money I have towards eating a hea1thy diet, organic and fresh when possib1e.
 
I've found coming off PPIs (was on them for 15 years) and eating organic as much as possib1e has improved my overa11 hea1th, cognition, headaches etc. It's been rea11y noticeab1e when I've had a down turn in my hea1th (from my 1ung issues) and have had to turn to eating ready mea1s, biscuits, crisps, choco1ate snacks etc. My headaches get much worse and my appetite increases so I stop fee1ing sated after a mea1. So I think avoiding u1tra-processed foods as much as possib1e is probab1y good advice for PWME.
 
Simbindi said:
I've found coming off PPIs (was on them for 15 years) and eating organic as much as possib1e has improved my overa11 hea1th, cognition, headaches etc. It's been rea11y noticeab1e when I've had a down turn in my hea1th (from my 1ung issues) and have had to turn to eating ready mea1s, biscuits, crisps, choco1ate snacks etc. My headaches get much worse and my appetite increases so I stop fee1ing sated after a mea1. So I think avoiding u1tra-processed foods as much as possib1e is probab1y good advice for PWME.
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Yeah you’re right. One reason I am not keen on Spector is his very middle class framing of all this stuff.

Considering the challenges I had an amazing diet before LC ME combo totally ruined it . Really ruined it.

It’s not that I don’t crave variety or nutrition and, I do eat organic foods and unpasteurised fermented veggies. I do use organic cider vinegar ‘with the mother’ my family used to make kombucha and yoghurt in our airing cupboard. So all pretty familiar to me.

But it’s just now can barely sit up and chew or swallow my food. So though I return to these foods I am mostly living on fruits- ok but not live on-gluten free pot noodles-ultra processed- instant mash-ultra processed and disgusting but easy to swallow- hummus and cucumber, miso, tofu or chicken, olive oil, and packets of salty seaweed and lemon juice. I am exaggerating a little. But I do need to find out how the very severe manage to get full micro nutrition. I have so many restrictions that I can’t imagine there’s a preparation that would be good for me, but that’s probably what I need for minerals.

I maybe went s bit off topic there, apologies.
 
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Simbindi said:
I think their genera1 advice a1ways comes back to, 'Eat 30 different p1ant based foods (which inc1udes herbs and spices) a week, eat fermented foods (unpasteurised), avoid u1tra-processed foods etc.' Which is great genera1 advice, but hard for PWME to achieve due to energy 1imitations, being housebound, often unab1e to prepare fresh mea1s even if you can obtain the ingredients etc. It's particu1ar1y difficu1t for those on a 1ow income to eat to this standard.

They do say frozen or canned fruit and veg (without sugar and preferrab1y organic) wou1d sti11 'count' towards the 30 p1ant food goa1s, particu1ar1y if organic (as 1ess 1ike1y to have additives).

I'm unsure about a11 their persona1isation c1aims though. I guess if you have 1ots of spare money then there's probab1y no harm in it trying it out. Persona11y I'm on far too tight a budget and just put any money I have towards eating a hea1thy diet, organic and fresh when possib1e.
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My understanding is that everyone who participates in this research are given a glucose monitor so that they can monitor how different foods affects their blood sugar levels. I would love to participate in this, however, it's not available to Canadians.
 
Ash said:
What is holding me back is that I really don’t like the Zoe guy. But I can’t remember details behind this. I think it was that he’s is very good on some subjects getting my hopes up and then very not good in others.

I’d also be interested to know if it’s a promising avenue of not?
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If it's Tim Spector you mean, I found him to be really fascinating. I've seen him in the past on an American show about the gut microbiome and found his information really interesting. I recently read his book "Spoon Fed" and I'm waiting for his book "Food for Life" that I ordered from Amazon a few days ago.
 
TigerLilea said:
If it's Tim Spector you mean, I found him to be really fascinating. I've seen him in the past on an American show about the gut microbiome and found his information really interesting. I recently read his book "Spoon Fed" and I'm waiting to receive his book "Food for Life".
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Yes it is him. Later he was also doing work on Covid with Indy Sage.
 
TigerLilea said:
My understanding is that everyone who participates in this research are given a glucose monitor so that they can monitor how different foods affects their blood sugar levels. I would love to participate in this, however, it's not available to Canadians.
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Not everyone. I think that's just a se1ect group. But there are differences between the USA and UK groups so I'm not sure about the USA. They started with the USA because they knew they cou1d get enough peop1e to pay the costs of participation to get adequate initia1 data.

https://zoe.com/faqs/gb

To get a blood sugar sensor you must consent to our clinical study. There are no additional costs to you for having to do so. After purchasing a ZOE plan, you will be directed to a page where you are prompted to complete your order and consent to our study. To be eligible, you must meet the following criteria:

  • You are at least 18 years of age

  • You live in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland

  • You have a body mass index (BMI) of at least 16.5kg/m2

  • You are not pregnant

  • You have not had a heart attack (myocardial infarction), stroke/transient ischemic attack or major surgery in the last two month

  • You can safely eat our test muffins (See 'Are your muffins suitable for vegans or vegetarians?' above for the ingredient list)

  • If you are being treated for chronic medical conditions (including type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes), you have checked with your doctor that this product is safe for you (note that to participate in the PREDICT 3 study you must not have been diagnosed with eating disorders, type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes)
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Ash said:
Yeah you’re right. One reason I am not keen on Specter is his very middle class framing of all this stuff.
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Ditto!

I buy my fruit and veg from Riverford. Even though they are an ethica1 and great 'emp1oyee owned' company to work for, I was discussing the costs with my de1ivery driver. I to1d him I use my PIP to buy my organic food. He to1d me he can't even afford to buy a box of veg every week and he gets a big discount!
 
Simbindi said:
Ditto!

I buy my fruit and veg from Riverford. Even though they are an ethica1 and great 'emp1oyee owned' company to work for, I was discussing the costs with my de1ivery driver. I to1d him I use my PIP to buy my organic food. He to1d me he can't even afford to buy a box of veg every week and he gets a big discount!
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Its terrible. What an awful system, when a man bringing nutrition to others can’t feed himself on veggies like this.
 
Ash said:
Yeah you’re right. One reason I am not keen on Specter is his very middle class framing of all this stuff.
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I just read the subscription costs.

Membership plans start from £24.99 per month plus £299.99 for the test kit (or you can pay for the test kit in six interest-free instalments of £49.99).

The membership is essential to translate your test insights into personalised advice for healthy eating. You only start paying for the membership once we’re done analysing your test results, and you can see your personalised ZOE Scores in the app.

Our membership plans:

  • £24.99 per month for a 12-month membership plus £299.99 for testing. Membership paid in one payment of £299.88, billed when you can see your ZOE Scores in the app.

  • £39.99 per month for a 4-month membership plus £299.99 for testing. Membership paid in one payment of £159.96, billed when you can see your ZOE Scores in the app.
£59.99 per month for a rolling monthly membership plus £299.99 for testing, cancel any time.
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So the ro11ing membership which a 1ow income person wou1d need to take out is much more expensive than the upfront 12 month membership a comfortab1y off person wou1d take out.

That said, most 1ow income (and many midd1e income) UK residents wou1dn't even be ab1e to consider paying for Zoe, since they can't even afford to both eat and heat their homes in the current cost of 1iving crisis.
 
The way I viewed it when I read into Zoe, was wou1d any resu1ts or 'bespoke' advice actua11y be put into practice by myse1f when I am strugg1ing to eat hea1thi1y with a11 my physica1, cognitive and financia1 1imitations in the first p1ace? Additiona11y, wou1d it just make me fee1 more of a fai1ure or under more pressure? Do I want the burden of monitoring a11 these things on a dai1y basis?

Important1y, at present they on1y 1ook at 30 microbes I be1ieve (15 'good' and 15 'bad') which at best is on1y going to give a very crude idea of the 'hea1th' of ones very comp1ex microbiome. I'm not sure if any of these are yeasts but they obvious1y aren't 1ooking at viruses.
 
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Ash said:
Its terrible. What an awful system, when a man bringing nutrition to others can’t feed himself on veggies like this.
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I think those who work at the main farm can get free veg (any excess can get taken by staff) and very discounted mea1s. But if you're working away from the centre you obvious1y can't pick up the veg from their store.
 
Someone I know is doing it. You get the glucose monitor for a week (or two?) and no longer. You need to be able to buy and prepare meals according to what they tell you and when, which rules me out so not tempted myself. They do various tests but as said above the advice doesn't seem hugely specific or tailored to diseases, probably worth it if you don't know much about nutrition and don't have brain power to put into it and can somehow manage the dietary instructions and logging, maybe not so useful if you have a good grasp of nutrition.
 
Yep, based on their website Zoe costs £600pa - but I'm not sure what for.

Context (as this little state funded pwME could in no way afford that, even if I could see a point) - my sister has been on about it for months, and last time I was round hers she announced that she was getting everyone a Zoe sub for Christmas.

1. That's far too much, especially given it's very dubious I would be able to keep up with any requirements for very long.
2. And of course it seems dubious that I could keep up with/pay for any nutritional/supplement 'advice' what with the whole cognitive/energy issues, and of course having an income well below the official UK poverty line.
3. I can't see/understand the point of the whole thing, other than as a way to sell testing and probably supplements.

I suspect words will have to be had to try and discourage her ambitions re signing me up.
 
Wonko said:
Yep, based on their website Zoe costs £600pa - but I'm not sure what for.

Context (as this little state funded pwME could in no way afford that, even if I could see a point) - my sister has been on about it for months, and last time I was round hers she announced that she was getting everyone a Zoe sub for Christmas.

1. That's far too much, especially given it's very dubious I would be able to keep up with any requirements for very long.
2. And of course it seems dubious that I could keep up with/pay for any nutritional/supplement 'advice' what with the whole cognitive/energy issues, and of course having an income well below the official UK poverty line.
3. I can't see/understand the point of the whole thing, other than as a way to sell testing and probably supplements.

I suspect words will have to be had to try and discourage her ambitions re signing me up.
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I've noticed their way of marketing Zoe is quite subt1e, to suit a more British audience (compared to the USA diet YouTube videos I've inadvertent1y watched in the past). Initia11y it sounds so bespoke and 'usefu1' unti1 you start thinking more deep1y about it. Fortunate1y my autism means I have a natura1 aversion to anyone trying to 'contro1' my 1ife, even if I did have the energy and financia1 means to fo11ow their programme. A1so I don't 'do apps' either, or use my phone for anything other than persona1 banking or authorising on1ine payments. I don't even 'do texts', so I'm pretty immune to their sa1es pitch.
 
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Wonko said:
Context (as this little state funded pwME could in no way afford that, even if I could see a point) - my sister has been on about it for months, and last time I was round hers she announced that she was getting everyone a Zoe sub for Christmas.
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Ha ha. For years my e1dest sister used to buy me expensive toi1etries and make up that I wou1d never use (I've a1ways had sensitive skin, can't to1erate perfumes and have never worn make up for various reasons which I won't go into). So I get the prob1em with unwanted expensive Xmas presents. I never cou1d get her to just give me the cash...
 
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