Article Telegraph: Is long Covid being overblown?

[Sly Saint]

"Some experts say it's a major issue for sufferers while others say that it has been confused with other conditions – so what’s the truth?"

Even for a nation accustomed to pandemic-sized sickness numbers, the latest figures on long Covid are starkly alarming. Last week an Oxford University study suggested that more a third of people infected with coronavirus will suffer at least one persisting symptom for three months or longer, such as fatigue, pain, depression, and problems with breathing and digestion.

The researchers, in the journal PLoS One, also compared Covid-19’s power to cause lasting post-viral symptoms with another lethal virus foe – influenza. They estimate that post-viral symptoms are around 50 per cent more common following Covid-19 than after flu.

Earlier this month, investigators at University College London and Public Health England reported in a yet-to-be published study (called the CLoCk study) that one in seven children with Covid is still suffering three months later. The most common symptoms include unusual tiredness and headaches.

The latest long Covid estimates from the Office for National Statistics suggest that about 31,000 youngsters in the 11-17 age group already have the condition.

Such statistics augur widespread ill for countless thousands whose debilitating problems may persist for months or years, or perhaps never resolve.
Not everyone agrees. Sir John Bell, the regius professor of medicine at Oxford University who helped to drive the AstraZeneca vaccine’s development, has declared that the impact of long Covid is actually “overblown”.

“The incidence [of long Covid] is much, much lower than people had anticipated,” Sir John said last month. He argues that many people who think they have long Covid are actually suffering from other conditions that share “the long list” of symptoms.

Does this mean that long Covid is caused in a specific new way? The jury is still out.”

Furthermore, Dr Scott adds, months of lockdown may have left many feeling severely fatigued and depressed regardless of infection: “It would not be surprising if some people who never actually contracted the infection report long Covid type symptoms because living through 2020 was a very rough experience.”

Nevertheless, Scott says that significant numbers of people may still be facing mysterious new Covid-related post-viral sicknesses that might dog them for years
One possibility, she says, is that in some long Covid cases the virus persists in the body.

However, long Covid might instead be an autoimmune condition caused by the body’s defences continuously reacting to the now-banished infection, she adds.

This leaves medics in a quandary. If long Covid is caused by the virus persisting in the body, it might be treated with a vaccine jab. But if it’s an autoimmune condition, then giving a vaccine could worsen symptoms by further stimulating the immune system. Instead, treatment might involve immune-dampening drugs, as are given for arthritis.

Esther Crawley, professor of child health at the University of Bristol, set up a rapid-access long Covid clinic for children suffering from fatigue two months ago. She says significant numbers are showing unprecedented problems.

“A lot of the children have similar symptoms to those who’ve suffered post-viral fatigue after other infections such as flu. But at least 10 per cent have variations that we have not seen before,” she says.

“These include persistently raised temperature. Breathlessness is another new symptom. Colleagues tell me that they are seeing a lot more gastro-intestinal problems as well, and more neurological symptoms,” Professor Crawley adds.

“What we are looking at may in fact be three to five different illnesses. They all feature fatigue but are accompanied by different clusters of symptoms that indicate different underlying biologies.”

“Most of those with anxiety or depression develop it after they get sick,” she adds. “It’s thoroughly understandable that children who get sick may become depressed and anxious. We have not found any evidence that anxiety or depression predict post-infectious fatigue (such as ME or chronic-fatigue syndrome) in children or young people.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/long-covid-overblown/

 

[Remain in Light]

“Most of those with anxiety or depression develop it after they get sick,” she adds. “It’s thoroughly understandable that children who get sick may become depressed and anxious. We have not found any evidence that anxiety or depression predict post-infectious fatigue (such as ME or chronic-fatigue syndrome) in children or young people.”

Didn't find any evidence that anxiety or depression predict post infectious fatigue, such as ME either.
It all seemed quite reasonable but she just couldn't help get that little barb in.

 

[petrichor]

Didn't find any evidence that anxiety or depression predict post infectious fatigue, such as ME either.
It all seemed quite reasonable but she just couldn't help get that little barb in.

I don't really see how this is a barb. She's just stating what the evidence is

 

[Arnie Pye]

I don't really see how this is a barb. She's just stating what the evidence is

It's a barb because once a patient of any age has been declared to be anxious or depressed they tend not to get any real tests to uncover health problems. And those warning flags about anxiety and depression will stay on the child's records for the rest of their lives. They just get sent to therapy or get given anti-depressants. At least adults, under most circumstances, can choose which treatments they undergo and can refuse if they don't like what's on offer. But children don't have that choice because doctors can override the child's and the parents' wishes.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I don't really see how this is a barb. She's just stating what the evidence is

She conflated ME with fatigue rather than describe it as a severe adverse reaction to exercise or exertion.

 

[petrichor]

It's a barb because once a patient of any age has been declared to be anxious or depressed they tend not to get any real tests to uncover health problems. And those warning flags about anxiety and depression will stay on the child's records for the rest of their lives. They just get sent to therapy or get given anti-depressants. At least adults, under most circumstances, can choose which treatments they undergo and can refuse if they don't like what's on offer. But children don't have that choice because doctors can override the child's and the parents' wishes.

The context of the article is whether Long Covid is psychosomatic or anxiety or depression. The quote about anxiety and depression is preceded by the article saying that she doesn't believe it's psychosomatic. In that context I don't think there's anything wrong with what she said, in fact, it seems good to me. She didn't need to say that there's no evidence that anxiety and depression predict post viral syndromes.

She conflated ME with fatigue rather than describe it as a severe adverse reaction to exercise or exertion.

This article is about Long Covid, which doesn't necessarily have PEM. In the context I don't see anything wrong with referring to ME in the category of "other types of postviral fatigue", rather than interjecting that sentence with a long-ish and mildly convoluted explanation of what PEM is, which the journalist probably wouldn't include anyway.

I understand there's a bit of a mixed history with Professor Crawley, but I think what she said here was actually pretty good. Most of the time I'm not a fan of nitpicking things that people say

 

[Sean]

Esther Crawley, professor of child health at the University of Bristol, set up a rapid-access long Covid clinic for children suffering from fatigue two months ago. She says significant numbers are showing unprecedented problems.

“A lot of the children have similar symptoms to those who’ve suffered post-viral fatigue after other infections such as flu. But at least 10 per cent have variations that we have not seen before,” she says.

“These include persistently raised temperature. Breathlessness is another new symptom. Colleagues tell me that they are seeing a lot more gastro-intestinal problems as well, and more neurological symptoms,” Professor Crawley adds.

Sounds familiar. Perhaps not so new?

“What we are looking at may in fact be three to five different illnesses. They all feature fatigue but are accompanied by different clusters of symptoms that indicate different underlying biologies.”

So, not psychosomatic then?

 

[Peter T]

So, not psychosomatic then?

Prof Crawley has avoided saying much in research papers about aetiology, but in the press she has repeatedly referred to ME/CFS as having biomedical components, but she is wedded to the idea that those biomedical components can be magically treated by behavioural and psychological interventions.

She has even talked about her preferred behavioural and psychological intervention acting as a ‘pill’ to address brain/neurological issues.

I don’t know how this will relate to her approach to Long Covid, but it seems fairly likely that for anything with a fatigue component she will revert to her belief in behavioural and psychological intervention being a magic cure all.

 

[boolybooly]

Didn't find any evidence that anxiety or depression predict post infectious fatigue, such as ME either.
It all seemed quite reasonable but she just couldn't help get that little barb in.

That so called "evidence" is not credible, its the worst kind of handwaving based on self reporting questionnaires etc. Not a shred of empirical evidence involved and subject to the biased campaigns of the BPS collaborators with insurance companies and their PR hirelings.

What she is doing is trying to drive a wedge between ME and long covid because she does not want the overwhelming public recognition of long covid to be applied to ME and expose what she and others like her have been doing to ME patients based on no credible evidence whatsoever.

Its a barb and then some. I would call it a further manifestation of "the big lie".

Previously discussed here.
https://www.s4me.info/threads/bps-attempts-at-psychologizing-long-covid.16013/page-48#post-373960