Opinion CBT and graded exercise therapy studies have proven that ME/CFS and long Covid are physical diseases, yet no one is aware of that, 2024, Vink

Nor am I. That is the whole point.
I was speculating that the conditions under which one is exercising, including aspects that may be determined by mental state may have a profound effect on muscle training. They may not, but the question was whether we could exclude the possibility and thereby support the claim in the title. An effect of mental state is likely to be mediated by autonomic pathways and maybe hormonal pathways since both are controlled by central brain areas.

 

Yes but that is a different neuromuscular phenomenon commonly called 'shivering' and not the same as adrenergic tremor. So I guess irrelevant? We also shake with Parkinson's disease and old age. Irrelevant.

 

To my non-English brain, you «sounded» more certain than what you describe now as speculation. I might also be reading more into things you say because you know so much about so many topics. Apologies for the misunderstanding and thank you for clarifying!

 

Now published.

 

Professor Todd Davenport, specialist in exercise physiology, commented on the study’s findings in the following manner:
“The analysis is so spot-on. Thank you for getting it out into the world.”
https://twitter.com/user/status/1880201272458174817

 

ME Research UK:

Dr Mark Vink and Alexandra Vink-Niese published an article (https://bit.ly/4b363Nx) which highlighted the complexities and biological abnormalities of ME/CFS, for example in relation to "immunological and inflammatory pathways, autonomic and neurological dysfunction, ... cellular energy production and ... gene expression". They emphasise that extensive research has demonstrated the ineffectiveness of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) and graded exercise therapy (GET) as treatments for ME/CFS and challenge the misconception that the condition stems from dysfunctional beliefs, avoidance behaviour, and deconditioning.

The researchers analyse ME/CFS and long COVID studies involving CBT and GET that they state actually provide evidence of the physical nature of these conditions. They also explore why awareness of the ineffectiveness of CBT and GET remains limited, citing factors such as resistance to change, and thus misinterpretation of findings, amongst researchers who built their careers on the deconditioning model. They also argue that many CBT/GET studies were conducted by mental health professionals without expertise in exercise physiology, leading to flawed conclusions. Read full article: https://bit.ly/4b363Nx #MECFS #Myalgicencephalomyelitis

 

Yes, that’s the thread I posted it to.

 

I agree with the conclusion, at least with all the evidence and experience I have taken into account. ME/CFS is a physical disease.

Where the proponents of psychogenic disease can hide, and have with MS on occasion, is the claim its not only a physical disease.

The argument shows that whatever ME/CFS is it prevents gaining substantive fitness from the types of exercise used. Most people would have major gains in the time frame used. We nearly always do not. Now my opinion is that this is because of a spectrum of physiological impairments we are still trying to understand. However there is still that lurking potential claim that some as yet not understood psychological process is causing it. What the paper's argument does suggest is that such claims of psychogenic processes would be tenuous given current data, and indeed their own data. That suggests this would be an extraordinary claim, and I would want to see substantive evidence of that claim. I am still waiting. I have yet to see such evidence.

Once we have a replicable biomarker that highlights specific mechanisms there will be much less need of making these arguments. We are not there yet. So this paper serves a useful purpose, even if its not perfect. Its pretty good.