DecodeME in the media

[Andy]

In fact, as far as I know there aren't even 25K people in the UK with a clinical diagnosis of ME/CFS, entirely by choice.

To repeat, the actual fact is that 26k participants confirmed a clinical diagnosis.

But it did not happen

See above.

 

[Adam pwme]

Did anyone manage to record the discussion about Decode on Sky - Press preview? Would really appreciate a copy, even if it’s just a recording of a TV using a phone camera.

Thanks

 

[Maat]

Did anyone manage to record the discussion about Decode on Sky - Press preview? Would really appreciate a copy, even if it’s just a recording of a TV using a phone camera.

Thanks

@bobbler managed to find it. I could only find the first half hour of the 11pm of the extended press review which covered Ukraine and Gaza, on the Sky press review on their YouTube channel.

She transcribed from what she found online.

Ok I’ve got the 11.30 recording open (no 10.30 press preview as it was Trumps speech instead) - Lucy Beresford (the other one on press preview is Adam Boulton who was a Sky reported and presenter for years and just in last few weeks has started doing this guest spot every so often).

Yes she’s the ‘broadcaster and psychotherapist’ they’ve had quite a bit over the years on the press preview (I’ve never worked out why , not that she’s bad but she wasn’t famous before as far as I’m aware so I can’t name the connection she has that meant she is often on this press preview. )

They did actually include ‘study finds genes that could raise risk of ME’ after the break in this. Presenter did a good read out about ‘scientists have found robust evidence that genes increase someone’s chances of developing M.E., a mysterious and debilitatinv illness that has been dismissed and neglected for decades by many in the medical community’ then ‘I remember it used to be called yuppie flu driven by psychology or driven by laziness some even suggested so this is redemption for those who fought for years suggesting they had ME when they weren’t believed’

Beresford: ‘yes it’s a tricky one you’re right there was some sense in which people assumed that it might be psychological in etio erm orientation , but the original of it is not necessarily changed by this even though they are saying that there might be some genetic code as we know that the etiology of a condition or a disease might have other factors at pleay. You could easily have the gene for something and not then go onto develop the disease and I think what people are very worried about with this particular piece of research is that I’m quite a lot of the people who were part of the study had actually self-reported this condition so they hadn’t necessarily had a formal diagnosis and that just unfortunately kind of dilutes the effect of this research. So what people are talking or calling for is maybe a bigger study maybe a study of people in other countries not just developed countries but less developed countries to kind of of see if you can replicate the results of that.’

So yes , Lucy Beresford definitely for some reason has been primed with misinformation (which might be her own).

Host ‘yes that’s interesting. It’s the university of Edinburgh who suggested that people who present with chronic fatigue syndrome had eight areas of genetic code that are different which is interesting. They also pointed out the condition is believed to affect nearly 67m people worldwide. I know it’s been speculated it could be post viral like long covid for example or but as you suggested maybe they you know continue working to find out more about chronic fatigue syndrome’. And seemed a bit awkward at that point - I don’t know whether because she was taken off guard by her (Lucy’s spiel) or that was something the programme editing agreed with

It was interesting that adam boulton didn’t speak on it as with many of their items both contributors do, but his focus is political commentator so maybe that’s why they let Lucy dominate.

She, Lucy, had been pretty opinionated on other tax stuff too tho earlier on in programme saying things like ‘they don’t understand much about human psychology and how they change their behaviour on things like non dom or company directors that can move abroad, and all youngsters are scared they’ll never get a job because of ‘the job tax’’ her invention to call the NI on employers ‘job tax’ several times in a small segment. So again on that she’s either become more emboldened over the years if speaking her mind (or brought in for it) I don’t know if they are ever given direction in what to say on this particular show.

@Joan Crawford in case this answers any of your perfectly reasonable questions. I’ve never fully known why she was on there over the years, so missed the connection (most others on there are journo of some kind or allied to politics )

 

[MSEsperanza]

Trial By Error: DecodeME Pre-Print Reports Eight “Genetic Signals” Related to Immune Function and Nervous System

Good to see you covering the first findings too, @dave30th

From your blog article:

"Luckily, the SMC also invited two less biased observers to comment. This balance is certainly an improvement."

I think the forth commenter also deserves a mention? -- even if she didn't declare her potential COI and it's not clear to me what her expertise is with regard to the topic. But I read it as contradictory to Carson's venting:

Dr Amy Mason, Research Associate, British Heart Foundation Cardiovascular Epidemiology Unit, University of Cambridge, said:

“This is a well-designed study with large numbers and careful case selection. It is particularly notable for how well it has recruited ME/CFS patients, who are usually hard to identify in existing national biobanks. The results identify specific genetic areas linked to developing ME/CFS. This is solid genetic evidence pointing to potential biological pathways that cause ME/CFS, with multiple new targets for future study.

She also mentions limitations but then goes on:

“Interestingly they find no evidence that depression and ME/CFS have shared genetic links, but do find evidence of both pain and the immune system being involved. This fits with what patients often report and helps shift the narrative; ME/CFS is not psychosomatic but linked to measurable differences in genes affecting pain and immunity.

And concludes:

This study identifies some key potential areas for future study. It lays the groundwork for other researchers and pharmaceutical companies to follow, by identifying the areas to look at both for understanding the causes of ME/CFS and for developing new drugs to treat it.”

 

[Joan Crawford]

I've now finished my research following that Sky Press Review last night and the Reuters piece on DecodeME.


This is from Lucy Beresfords's website: https://www.lucyberesford.com/psychotherapywalkingtherapy



Trigger words used here 'anxiety' and 'burnout'. Burnout still being used around the same time as 'Yuppie Flu' in the mid 1980s.

Further digging unearthed this paper epublished April 2010:

Two sides of the same coin? On the history and phenomenology of chronic fatigue and burnout. Leone SS, Wessely S, Huibers MJ, Knottnerus JA, Kant I. Psychol Health. 2011 Apr;26(4):449-64. doi: 10.1080/08870440903494191. Epub 2010 Apr 29. PMID: 20437294.

Full PDF in researchgate:
https://www.researchgate.net/public..._phenomenology_of_chronic_fatigue_and_burnout

ABSTRACT



Then add in Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ked-with-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-2025-08-06/

Note sole use of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome


Add to Carson's comment on SMC, online before the press review at 11.00 p.m. : https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...deme-genome-wide-association-study-of-me-cfs/

There's the bias in her commentary last night coming through. @Joan Crawford


Edit to tidy up research reference.

Pretty hard to confuse burnout from ME. While there are a few overlapping symptoms they are far from similar.

Thanks for sharing that Wessely et al paper, I'd not seen that. More evidence of the 'pop it all in one fatigue pile' failure.

 

[Joan Crawford]

Is there any evidence about anxiety impeding recovery? I'm not aware of that ever being studied, let alone objectively.

I think it is wot the man simply believes. He's so invested in himself being right that he cannot countenance any other possibility. He's really looking foolish.

As him and his mates have not demonstrated recovery, one wonders how he picks this factor out to claim it impedes recovery over other possible explanations. Pick and mix at will. No rationale other that belief.

Most plausible and simpler explanation is the continuation of debilitating symptoms which impedes recovery.... which he could assess by simply speaking to patients. But that seems to be lost on him.

 

[hotblack]

I think it is wot the man simply believes. He's so invested in himself being right that he cannot countenance any other possibility. He's really looking foolish.

It’s entirely about that isn’t it, what they’ve emotionally invested in this idea. Because if you’ve got that much of a reputation, the positions they have, isn’t it wiser to just admit what is in front of you and move on? Why bang this drum, it makes no sense. It also shows a real inflexibility which is exactly what they’ve accused us of. Some would almost say it’s projection…

 

[Joan Crawford]

I recall some research showing previous depression appearing to precede ME/CFS. The problem was it often takes years to get diagnosed. So in the years before diagnosis, patients may appear depressed either due to the physical symptoms of ME/CFS having some similarity to depression or because they are distressed from struggling with a disabling chronic illness for which they are not getting support and accommodations at work, school, home, etc.

Experienced clinicians like Wessely and White should have known diagnosis often took years (particularly in the 1990s) and discussed it but either didn’t at all or maybe only in passing.

I suspect that many people with ME could have anxiety and depression on their primary care records as the majority of people who have ever seen a GP when a bit distressed or tearful will do. It doesn't mean that a thorough psychological assessment has taken place it is simply GP short hand for increased distress.

If Wessely et al used a large data set from primary care to explore this then there will be a correlational finding but of dubious quality and meaning.

 

[Joan Crawford]

It’s entirely about that isn’t it, what they’ve emotionally invested in this idea. Because if you’ve got that much of a reputation, the positions they have, isn’t it wiser to just admit what is in front of you and move on? Why bang this drum, it makes no sense. It also shows a real inflexibility which is exactly what they’ve accused us of. Some would almost say it’s projection…

He's as loss averse and biased as anyone. Perhaps amplified by an echo chamber around him. And a somewhat sneering attitude towards those that might think differently to him. Even if the quality of the evidence presented is on a different scale to what he simply thinks and believes.

As a psychiatrist you'd have thought he'd be aware that people in general can hold all sorts of things in their mind that are clearly objectively not true.

 

[Midnattsol]

I suspect that many people with ME could have anxiety and depression on their primary care records as the majority of people who have ever seen a GP when a bit distressed or tearful will do. It doesn't mean that a thorough psychological assessment has taken place it is simply GP short hand for increased distress.

Something I wish doctors would pay more attention to, instead of complaining how «youths today say they are anxious when they mean nervous, depressed when they mean sad» etc and that people supposedly use «clinical labels» just because. As if they are any better. Then again obviously I think all doctors can’t tell a food intolerance from an allergy as I met an intensive care doc mistook lactose for milk protein when explaining that a product was safe for someone with milk allergies. Maybe he was influenced by media where someone used the wrong term and he just had to go along with it.

 

[InitialConditions]

BPS adding community notes to X posts .
Suspected as being Carson but plenty other candidates .
I can't see them ( seemingly you need to be verified )
Essentially non replication being evidence if false positives

It wasn't Carson or anyone like that. It was a guy called Siebe on X (https://x.com/PatientPersists) who had a tweet that was essentially identical to the Community Note, but he deleted his Community Note and his original tweet, then corrected himself.