Do you have fever as a part of PEM?

It seems that there are quite a few studies of temperature in ME/CFS or CFS patients but a very quick skim through suggests that a lot of them are not very useful.

I don't think wrist temperature is much use.
Earlier testing devices may have had calibration problems.
Numbers are small.
I don't see reference to PEM.
Brain area temperature may be interesting but is a separate question from fever, which relates to control of core body temperature. The latter may tell us something about immune signals the brain may be responding to. The former would not.
Etc.

It looks as if there is no very major difference from controls at least in some studies but we can expect difference to be quite subtle and intermittent.

I think a minimum number for a study would be 20, perhaps 10 moderate and 10 severe. Up to 50 might be good.

I think monitoring should be over a period expected to include at least 3-4 episode of PEM.

The monitoring should be continuous. I suspect armpit or nearby chest area is the best place to measure although external auditory meatus might be ideal (like a hearing aid).

I think it is worth picking through the literature carefully to see how much we think we already know.
 
I get extremely feverish, with all the typical symptoms except a significantly raised temperature. Body boiling hot to the touch (confirmed by others) and everything. IIrc temp has been slightly raised once or twice but nothing comparable to how abysmal I feel.

That said wasn't the information going round for acute covid in 20/21 that feeling feverish with a hot back or something of that sort was enough to say you had a fever?

I also get other 'immune' type symptoms like a runny nose and sneezing in bad PEM. I also get rigours and extreme shaking if the crash is really bad.
 
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V.R.T. said:
Body boiling hot to the touch (confirmed by others) and everything.
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In the early days, not often now, I have had the experience of extremely cold feet, including in the middle of a blazing tropical summer (and not in air-con).

It was confirmed a handful of times by asking other people to touch my feet and they all said (without my prompting) that my feet were distinctly cold (not merely cool, but cold), and they all looked quite surprised. Feet were still working okay, and looked okay, if a touch pale, and were also sore.

This suggests to me that this phenomena cannot be just an interoceptive issue with scrambled internal somatic signaling, but an actual objective physiological thing.
 
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Sean said:
In the early days, not often now, I have had the experience of extremely cold feet, including in the middle of a blazing tropical summer (and not in air-con).

It was confirmed a handful of times by asking other people to touch my feet and they all said (without my prompting) that my feet were distinctly cold (not merely cool, but cold), and they all look quite surprised. Feet were still working okay, and looked okay, if a touch pale and sore.

This suggests to me that this phenomena cannot be just an interoceptive issue with scrambled internal somatic signaling, but an actual objective physiological thing.
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Yes the other night when I crashed badly my partner commented on the fact my hands had gone freezing cold, and its far from the first time that's happened.
 
I feel hot, dehydrated and shaky during delayed PEM. I'm quite the opposite, my temperature drops to 35.5 for 2 days during the onset of delayed PEM even though I feel hot. My functional/integrative doc had me chart my temps the day after moderate exercise for a month.
 
My body temperature 'feels' like a fever at times, but only because it's trying to compensate. This is normal according to the ME doctor I was seeing in the early 90's.
 
I usually go the other way and go very cold in PEMs, particularly my feet and have chills but not a temperature or actual fever to my knowledge. But still often get sore throats and in the past had a tonsillitis like symptoms and felt like I have raised glands.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
I don't think fever has been documented reliably in ME//CFS. If it hasn't and it occurs then it is about time it was documented. It would be of crucial importance to our understanding.
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It has only just occurred to me to wonder why it would be of crucial importance to our understanding! Can you say why?

Also wondering whether it makes sense to compare a random bunch of PwME to healthy controls, or to select a bunch of PwME who say they get fevers, and compare them to healthy controls.

Or would the fever thing be expected to be on a continuum, with many of us having a low level of it without noticing that we have it?
 
Here is a Phoenix Rising poll on temperature with ME:

forums.phoenixrising.me

DISCUSSION: What Is Your Body Temperature? Rethinking 98.6

The Claim: Body Temperature Declines With Age Really? The Claim: Body Temperature Declines With Age By ANAHAD OCONNOR in the nyTImes Published: December 28, 2009 THE FACTS Body temperature is not as simple as conventional wisdom suggests. Years ago, scientists discovered that the normal...
forums.phoenixrising.me forums.phoenixrising.me
 
I often feel I have fever over 38 during PEM. Sometimes there is a bit fever. Most often not, even though it feels like fever the temperature is often 36.5.

I had 38 degrees for a couple of years when I first got sick.

When I had Covid I felt I had fever, but the temperature varied from 38.5 to 35.5.
 
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I have researched Fever Response in ME at length because I have been interested by the fact that I have never seem to develop a HIGH FEVER in 17 years. The only 2x times I did I was in (temp) remission - and also felt better afterwards.

I define HIGH FEVER as
- prolonged temperatures >38° C (various measurements)
- intense sweating
- Feeling very hot and very cold (chills)
- A lot of sleeping
- Dreamlike state

VS. FEVERISH or LOW-GRADE FEVER
- which is most fitting how most of the long-term patients describe their experience here
- Low or no temperature elevations - but feeling flu-ish / feverish (feeling cold/warm, light sweats)

My impression from all the reading (some articles and a lot of threads) on this topic, is that specially at later (and more severe) stage ME-patients lack a proper HIGH fever response to an infection


PS: I also discussed this with Prof Kenny de Meirleir. He observed similar within his patient group.
 
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