Does anyone else experience soreness in the back?

[Suffolkres]

. Kidney area. Also higher up the back in the middle. It's a warning sign that I'm close to overdoing it, and goes away again when I rest.

3 months before my ME started I had severe pain in the kidney area which left me unable to move off the sofa for days. I had all the tests and there's nothing wrong with me, of course.

My husband has this and we have been revisiting James L Wilson's book on Adrenal Fatigue, what he calls Hypoadrenia. ( For reference- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adrenal-Fatigue-Century-Stress-Syndrome/dp/1890572152)

When husband had an adrenal saliva test, we was at rock bottom in 2008. NHS Synacthen test showed nothing.

The short Synacthen test is a test of adrenal insufficiency (oh no it doesn't!) which can be used as a screening procedure in the non-critically ill patient. (balderdash!) The test is based on the measurement of serum cortisol before and after an injection of synthetic ACTH (also known as tetracosactrin).

 

[Milo]

Uhmmm... soreness in the back is quite vague and many can answer that yes they have soreness in the back- for various reasons that they may think of. I hope it does not inform your decision in getting care.
We already know that pain perception is quite variable. So a soreness for one can be assessed as severe pain for the other.

This said, spine, muscle tension and disc issues could explain some of the folks pain. Others can have pain because of poor posture, prior injury or really bad mattress.

Gastric, kidney stones or infection and gallbladder pain elicit some other kind of pain that radiates to the back and can peesent with other symptoms that are related to the suspected condition. How would one know if they didn’t have that exact type of pain? It would be best diagnosed by a physician who is able to perform physical exam and run tests as needed.

Best wishes.

 

[AliceLily]

@Milo I can't see what was wrong with this thread and it seeming vague, not vague to me and other posters knew what I was talking about because they had experienced similar. A lot of the posters had seen a doctor and by the sounds of it were not given any clue what might be causing it.

We are just chatting about something we feel sounded similar, that's all and giving our thoughts on it.

 

[Milo]

@Milo I can't see what was wrong with this thread and it seeming vague, not vague to me and other posters knew what I was talking about because they had experienced similar. A lot of the posters had seen a doctor and by the sounds of it were not given any clue what might be causing it.

We are just chatting about something we feel sounded similar, that's all and giving our thoughts on it.

That’s fine Rosie, I am just saying that discussions on the forum should never take precedent over a visit to a medical doctor.

We know that stuff gets missed because we have a ME diagnosis. Patients are not as likely to see their doctor for several reasons including being homebound.

I just wanted to say that we can never know for sure that person x,y,z have the same diagnosis based on soreness in the back and it is up to each patient to get an in person diagnosis. This is about safety for all, including those who are dropping in the forum because they googled ‘soreness in the back’ and landed here.

That’s all.

 

[boolybooly]

I periodically have problems with muscular back pain which does not involve the kidneys but can involve the muscles in the lumbar region, overlaying the kidneys as well as in the thorax and neck.

I lived with aboslute agony making my back stiff as a board for over a year until I discovered that very high dose calcium for several days eventually brought relief. It is sometimes exacerbated by getting some sunshine and I think it is possibly because the VitD is causing my blood calcium to be stored somehow and leading to a dearth in my back muscles.

My back muscles from lumbar to thorax to neck are prone to soreness all the time and I have to keep up stretching three times a day; not only of the back but of the antagonstic muscles in the front of my abdomen and chest, otherwise they fight each other to maintain a balance and tense up.

As for the discussion of building core strength I am not sure how important or useful that advice is. Firstly I find it is impossible to build muscle strength since CFIDS onset due to something blocking the anabolic process, I have really tried.

I have some experience and education in this because I used to row quite seriously for my school and college and qualified as a sports science FE teacher on the back of a zoology degree. I was very well acquainted with the process of training to develope muscle fitness and strength which simply stopped happening the way it should after onset. I also believe my own core musculature was well developed by rowing before onset and doubt this is the real issue, it seems like something about muscle physiology and calcium in ME CFIDS.

I also find I am more prone to cramps in limb muscles since onset, which also responds to calcium but is slightly different and I find sometimes cramp bark tincture can help with limb muscles when it does not have much effect on back muscles. It is also a good anxiolytic, which help one relax.

When taking calcium though one has to watch out for signs of insufficient magnesium, eg heart arrhythmia. If they start then I have to rebalance the magnesium with calcium I am ingesting because they can compete with each other and too much of one excludes the other and vice versa, sometimes it can be a tricky balance.

 

[Wonko]

20-25 years ago I used to get this really badly, it was totally crippling if left undealt with.

I used to use a crunch machine to help with it. My reasoning was it felt as if 'things' were all gunked up so a bit of movement in the area should help, it did.

Crunches did nothing for it, but reverse crunches, they helped.

Or they caused so much pain and/or shocked my nervous system enough so that the original pain was unnoticeable for a while.

One of them anyway.

All depends on point of view.

At the time I associated it with my kidneys, it seemed to radiate out from there.

This was long before I had even heard of ME.

These days I get a much more minor version of it which I take as a warning sign, how bad it is indicating severity of need to stop and rest, in a lying down form, on a bed, sofa won't help, at least it doesn't help me.

 

[AliceLily]

As for the discussion of building core strength I am not sure how important or useful that advice is. Firstly I find it is impossible to build muscle strength since CFIDS onset due to something blocking the anabolic process, I have really tried.

Yes, a very significant change occurred for me also. I cannot tone up the way I used to since ME. I get PEM severe and get very sick from trying to strengthen my muscles. Another example of this is carrying heavy things - it brings on severer ME symptoms, so it is confirmation in another way.

it seems like something about muscle physiology and calcium in ME CFIDS.

I have wondered whether I am processing calcium properly. I was in a research study where I had to have a bone density test every year for 3 years and I was shocked my density wasn't that good. I should have had a much better result than I did. I had teeth problems as well. I started the study about a year or two before my ME onset. I can't remember the year I started the study but it was around the time of my onset.

When taking calcium though one has to watch out for signs of insufficient magnesium, eg heart arrhythmia. If they start then I have to rebalance the magnesium with calcium I am ingesting because they can compete with each other and too much of one excludes the other and vice versa, sometimes it can be a tricky balance.

Yes, with my cognitive symptoms I wouldn't want to try to experiment with this. The last thing I need is to get into a fix with calcium/magnesium imbalance, back and forth. Interesting you mention calcium though.

 

[AliceLily]

At the time I associated it with my kidneys, it seemed to radiate out from there.

I feel it around the back of the kidneys as well, a very sore uncomfortable feeling like you don't have much strength there to hold yourself up much longer.

These days I get a much more minor version of it which I take as a warning sign, how bad it is indicating severity of need to stop and rest, in a lying down form, on a bed, sofa won't help, at least it doesn't help me.

Yes, as soon as I lie down and have back support it slowly goes away.

 

[Amw66]

Referred pain diagram may help.
Also, given the recent metabolonic research , could maybe be due to.purines?

 

[AliceLily]

Guys, you don't have to answer this but I have been thinking that constipation may be causing part of this problem. I don't know. I never used to get this soreness that I explained in my first post until I got to menopause and began getting constipation. I feel more blocked up and slow at passing stuff.

Anyone else on this thread get constipation. My mother gets the same thing and she also experiences constipation. It may not be constipation that causes it but just wondering if others get constipation also.

 

[Invisible Woman]

I have zero medical training or knowledge but from my own experience I tended to find constipation related back pain was more lower back (for me at any rate). I had a lot of problems with IBS so it was either mad dashes to the loo or not going for days.

If I haven't been properly supported when sitting I find my muscle weaken and my chest slumps onto the upper abdomen. Then I get a bar of pain across the mid back. Rest and, if I'm up to it, a gentle Sphinx pose can help ease it out.

A combination of both at the same time was a very unpleasant experience.

 

[NelliePledge]

I don’t get constipation as I’m able to do quite a balanced diet with plenty of pulses and veggies. However I have noticed that I always feel worst in the morning and going to the loo alleviates some of that horrible all over aching