Eating improves exertion induced fatigue and symptoms of orthostatic intolerance

[sb4]

Does anyone know if eating sugar causes liver to release more glucose within 2 mins of eating?

Either way for me, I get significantly worse after eating, whatever it is.

 

[JemPD]

I've always suspected it of being a psychological/placebo thing for me, since I find food comforting, but at the same time my symptoms do not get worse when I need comfort or am feeling low, so maybe not who knows.

I would suggest further research, using cake, chocolate, ice cream etc. - using something you really detest as a control.

Actually Wonko that's a really good idea. I don't have anything in the house that I detest, I actually cant think of anything I like most things, but I am going to try & see if I get the same improvement after eating something non enjoyable.

 

[Hoopoe]

My mental model of the physiology is:

When blood glucose levels increase after a meal, the liver stores glucose in the form of glycogen for later use. Once these reserves are gone, the body increasingly uses fat and amino acids as fuel.

I think in my case there could be a problem of insufficient glycogen storage. I know little about this but it seems not inconsistent with what I described.

While energy reserves hold, exercise (ie. walking) is tolerated. As the reserves are increasingly depleted, symptoms appear and worsen.

As soon as new glucose enters the system, the symptoms rapidly improve. If the energy reserves were sufficient and/or being appropriate released, then I shouldn't have had such a positive response to eating.

I do have low blood sugar occasionally, several hours after meals but once a fasting state is properly established, it is usually well tolerated.

I think that there is a problem that shows itself when the body is transitioning from a fed into a fasting state and it seems to have a tendency to run out of energy reserves at this point. And walking will make it more apparent because energy reserves are consumed faster.

 

[TheBassist]

Oh god, like I need an excuse to eat MORE pizza

 

[Mithriel]

Without going into much detail, I had attacks like this for decades. Doctors were very scathing and saw it all as psychological.

Now that I am diabetic I have a machine and know that I did have hypoglycemia all those years. The brain needs glucose to function and I now believe that it is an autonomic dysfunction. The same homeostasis that goes wrong keeping my temperature stable does not signal my liver to release the glucose my brain needs when I have overexerted.

Starch in the mouth begins to be converted to sugar as you chew and it may be that we only need a little top us up. It is not like taking too much insulin.

A few times strangers saw the effect of a small amount of sugar when I was like that and even the nurses could not believe how quickly I changed.

 

[Hoopoe]

Now that I am diabetic I have a machine and know that I did have hypoglycemia all those years.

Type 1 or 2?

 

[Mithriel]

Type 2. I've always eaten a fairly healthy diet with not a lot of sugar, though I am overweight like many of us. I suspect that my pancreas is worn out with the strain of the continual hypoglycaemic due to the ME but who understands ME enough ... Diabetes care is well organized by the health profession but they have a strange blind spot. You can get information on dealing with acute illness with diabetes but nothing on chronic illness. My type 1 grandson has asthma which affects his blood sugars but we can't get any information for him either.

I don't have so many attacks and I think it is because by blood sugar sits a bit high now It was very frustrating that it happened whenever I felt a bit better obviously because that is when I did things. I never ate when I wanted to but when I needed to.

Unfortunately, I can't control my diabetes with diet. Firstly because I already eat the sort of diet they recommend, but mainly because it is the state of my ME which dictates my blood sugar levels - the liver releases glucose when you are ill.

 

[rogerblack]

Without going into much detail, I had attacks like this for decades. Doctors were very scathing and saw it all as psychological.

It's worth getting a machine and checking your blood sugar when you have a crash like this. The testers are inexpensive if you do not need ongoing testing, just to do it for a few days/occasions.
I was able to rule out any issues with blood sugar - pretty much. (alas).
And yet, eating makes me feel better.
Which would at least for me tend to rule out any obvious causal role of low blood sugar.

 

[svetoslav80]

Eating making me feel better is not some new discovery. About digestion, I think when you start eating, maybe your brain realizes that, and your cells start using the reserves your body has from before, so no need for the food to be digested and you feel better almost immediately.

 

[feeb]

I do seem to be more sensitive to drops in blood sugar or running out of glycogen now. I'm not diabetic, but I recognise the sensation from all the many, many times I hit the wall when running or cycling (in cycling we call it "bonking". Not nearly as fun as it sounds!).

I had to go to the post office yesterday and bonked on the way back home - lightheadedness, weakness, extreme dizziness when I turned my head. Had a banana and a yoghurt as soon as I got indoors and it was resolved in about 5 minutes or so, which is what I expect. Obviously I wasn't running a marathon, so it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but the event itself is recognisable for what it is.

 

[pteropus]

regarding the experience that putting food in our mouths, can help us feel better, even though the food hasn't reached the stomach.

AFAIK when we put food in our mouths, cells in the lining of our mouth check to see if the food molecules are safe.

ie the food hasn't reached our intestines, but there are still messages being sent that food is on the way.

so maybe our bodies are responding to the expectation of food, rather than the reality of food.

 

[Hoopoe]

Coincidentally, a while ago I sent a hair sample to researchers, who sent me back the results. I have low hair manganese, cobalt, magnesium, lithium, molybdenum levels. I have been reading about what this could mean.

Manganese seems like it could be relevant to the observation described earlier in this thread:

A number of manganese-activated enzymes play important roles in the metabolism of carbohydrates, amino acids, and cholesterol (4). Pyruvate carboxylase, a manganese-containing enzyme, and phosphoenolpyruvate carboxykinase (PEPCK), a manganese-activated enzyme, are critical in gluconeogenesis — the production of glucose from non-carbohydrate precursors. Arginase, another manganese-containing enzyme, is required by the liver for the urea cycle, a process that detoxifies ammonia generated during amino acid metabolism (3). In the brain, the manganese-activated enzyme, glutamine synthetase, converts the amino acid glutamate to glutamine. Glutamate is an excitotoxic neurotransmitter and a precursor to an inhibitory neurotransmitter, γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) (5, 6).

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/manganese

The low magnesium is also interesting as I take magnesium every day because I think it helps. Despite this, my levels are on the low side.