Finland: 2023 Helsinki University Long Covid conference

At that symposium: Paul Garner presenting "How to recover from Long Covid"
This n=1 story about recovery from Long Covid, a collection of health conditions where natural recovery is the norm rather than the exception, from a Professor of Evidence based-medicine.
 
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Hutan said:
At that symposium: Paul Garner presenting "How to recover from Long Covid"
This n=1 story about recovery from Long Covid, a collection of health conditions where recovery is the norm rather than the exception, from a Professor of Evidence based-medicine.
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The word Evidence in Evidence based-medicine seems to be used in the same way that Democratic is used in countries with Democratic in their official names – eg Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, The Democratic Republic of the Congo etc. All very Orwellian.
 
Adam pwme said:
Garner and Sharpe tag team at a Long Covid Symposium

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Trial By Error: An Upcoming “Biopsychosocial” Long Covid Conference in Finland

"What is it with the health care establishments in northern Europe? Why are they so devoted to non-evidence-based approaches to treating serious medical conditions? Why do they trust arguably fraudulent research, like the PACE trial and Professor Esther Crawley’s pediatric Lightning Process study? Why are the authors of these studies respected and even esteemed among some high-level circles in these countries?

The mind boggles."

https://www.virology.ws/2023/02/23/...sychosocial-long-covid-conference-in-finland/
 
bobbler said:
Just to square the circle on this do we know what Sharpe thinks of the Lightening Pricess and if he supports Paul Garner and the Norwegians?
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Yes, I have wondered this too.

People do get invited to conferences and not know who the other speakers are until they are confirmed by the conference committee. But really, how many professors are there that will add some sort of eminence celebrity quality to the whole thing? The local media can interview Sharpe, Emeritus Professor of Psychological Medicine (or any else that sounds good from his bio eg.
  • Honorary Consultant in Psychological Medicine at Oxford University Hospitals NHSFT
  • President, European Association of Psychosomatic Medicine, Consultation-Liaison Psychiatry and Integrated Care.
  • Past-President, American Academy of Consultation-Liaison Psychiatry
  • Recipient of the American Psychiatric Association 'Adolf Meyer award' in 2023
“What do you think about x,y,z?” Queue drivel on BPS

Paul can say he is an epidemiologist, (well that must be a good thing, they helped us with the pandemic) and you had Long Covid and you are recovered, you are a amazing person, why aren’t other people recovering? “Because they haven’t tried LP, it really works! Look how well I am!” And you have been cyberbullied by rabid ME activists, you poor thing” nice polarised, made for measure sound bite (for Paul to record and get another journalist on TV and online to interview him on).

The conference committee seem to want to have “balanced” discussion which is laughable because they do not represent anything worthy in psychological consequences of have LC and Paul likes to hang out with his LP mates.

The conference organisers pay for all the costs, airfares, five star hotels, meals, often drinks, usually lots of nice pressies, gifts for spouses, outings around the area, so a basically a junket. Then it is an opportunity to go visit and meet up with colleagues and see if they can network a few people into LP or a new insurance company might give them their card for another BPS conference. Lots of hand shaking, smiling and pat on the backs for the great work they do gaslighting patients in the name of “science” and some other “wellness” for Paul. Maybe he has already started training in LP and will have have his own wellness centre in Liverpool.

So still unclear how and if they know each other. Who knows, Sharpe might think Paul is a misinformed peddler of pseudoscientific “treatment” and too polite to mention it.
 
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bobbler said:
Just to square the circle on this do we know what Sharpe thinks of the Lightening Pricess and if he supports Paul Garner and the Norwegians?

is all of this ‘competition’ for the long covid dollar or only an issue for the but that’s superfluous to them ie don’t care if it’s physios, CBT or standing in circle commercial pyramid schemes people get sent to as it doesn’t interfere with ‘their bit’?
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I don't think this has been answered but I think I remember a few times when Sharpe re-tweeted some of the LP stuff, Garner's too, I think. I don't think they see it as competition at all, it's pretty much identical as far as they're concerned. Whatever works, I don't think they're particularly attached to CBT, it's just very marketable and fashionable. Crawley having done her own BS trial of this makes it clear.

And because everything they say about us is projection: boy do they follow fads and fashions. If the trend moves to some other more marketable mumbojumbo they'll follow without skipping a beat, even if some of it is the complete opposite, e.g. CBT vs ACT. They genuinely don't care what happens to the patients as long as business is good and they get participation trophies and good jobs.
 
Andy said:
Trial By Error: An Upcoming “Biopsychosocial” Long Covid Conference in Finland

"What is it with the health care establishments in northern Europe? Why are they so devoted to non-evidence-based approaches to treating serious medical conditions? Why do they trust arguably fraudulent research, like the PACE trial and Professor Esther Crawley’s pediatric Lightning Process study? Why are the authors of these studies respected and even esteemed among some high-level circles in these countries?

The mind boggles."

https://www.virology.ws/2023/02/23/...sychosocial-long-covid-conference-in-finland/
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Opinions overtook science at HUS Long Covid symposium

"On 16 March 2023, HUS organized the international Long Covid symposium ”Navigating the unknown: Exploring Realities and best practices on Long Covid”. About 100 people were present, mainly physicians, among whom were representatives from Kela (the Social Insurance Institution of Finland) and pension insurance companies. You can find previous posts about the symposium from our blog and David Tuller’s blog.

The symposium did not present any treatment methods for the treatment of Long Covid that are based on comprehensive research on the biological mechanisms of Long Covid. The primary message was that patients should be guided to think that their symptoms are caused by their own harmful thought and behavior patterns.

According to the speakers (with the exception of Dr. Nath), patients can be completely cured by modifying these patterns. In presentations discussing Long Covid treatment, personal opinions and attitudes of the speakers completely overrode the scientific consensus, guidelines and thousands of studies made on the subject. "

https://melc.fi/2023/03/23/opinions-overtook-science/

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Andy said:
Opinions overtook science at HUS Long Covid symposium

"On 16 March 2023, HUS organized the international Long Covid symposium ”Navigating the unknown: Exploring Realities and best practices on Long Covid”. About 100 people were present, mainly physicians, among whom were representatives from Kela (the Social Insurance Institution of Finland) and pension insurance companies. You can find previous posts about the symposium from our blog and David Tuller’s blog.

The symposium did not present any treatment methods for the treatment of Long Covid that are based on comprehensive research on the biological mechanisms of Long Covid. The primary message was that patients should be guided to think that their symptoms are caused by their own harmful thought and behavior patterns.

According to the speakers (with the exception of Dr. Nath), patients can be completely cured by modifying these patterns. In presentations discussing Long Covid treatment, personal opinions and attitudes of the speakers completely overrode the scientific consensus, guidelines and thousands of studies made on the subject. "

https://melc.fi/2023/03/23/opinions-overtook-science/
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I read this piece yesterday and encourage everyone here to do so as well. Sharpe recites the same insipid points while Garner is as pugilistic as ever. It’s unhinged.
 
In both Garner’s and Sharpe’s presentations, NICE’s updated ME/CFS guideline was considered unscientific and ridiculous. Garner further stated that the new guideline is harmful to patients and that doctors have a ”moral responsibility” to correct the public narrative and stop the nonsense.

”NICE UK ME/CFS guidance has made a Laughing stock of the methods and procedures that we have developed over 30 years”
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NICE didn't do that, you guys did it to yourselves with the "methods and procedures that [you] have developed over 30 years".

NICE, and patients, simply pointed that out.

Guilty as charged, m'lord. And proud of it.

I give them credit for taking ownership of those methods and procedures.
 
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According to the speakers (with the exception of Dr. Nath), patients can be completely cured by modifying these patterns. In presentations discussing Long Covid treatment, personal opinions and attitudes of the speakers completely overrode the scientific consensus, guidelines and thousands of studies made on the subject. "
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They're so sad. They can't cope with the truth so they're making their own bubbles of stupidity.
 
Report in the above summary document about Avi Nath's presentation. Sounds as though he was holding the line on the assumption of a biological mechanism, which is a relief.
Next up was a respected researcher in the field, Clinical Director of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) Avindra Nath, MD, who performed remotely.

Nath is specialized in neuroimmunology, thus he presented the pathophysiology of Long Covid mainly from this perspective. According to him, one of the most likely disease-causing mechanisms is immune-mediated, involving macrophages (a type of white blood cells) and antibodies. Other possible immune-mediated mechanisms and the possibility of chronic infection were also discussed.

Possible treatments were briefly discussed mainly from the point of view of clinical trials. According to Nath, depending on the mechanism, antivirals, IVIG treatment and other immunomodulators should be investigated in the treatment of Long Covid. Nath’s presentation was based on the latest researched and scientific consensus on the biological mechanisms of Long Covid.

The presentation was followed by a short discussion part, where the organizers asked questions trying to get Nath to state that anxiety, worry, avoidance behavior or other psychosocial factors were the cause or at least the maintaining factor of the patients’ symptoms. However, Nath noted, that many diseases like epilepsy were also considered hysteria and psychosomatic before medical science understood their biological mechanisms. In this context, he stated that the mistakes of the past should not be repeated.
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