Open Fred Friedberg (University of Stonybrook) Hydrogen Rich Water; Heart rate variability biofeedback in CFS

D

dreampop

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Fred Friedberg PhD, is an author, researcher, the President of the International Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (IACFS/ME), and a person with ME/CFS. The Stony Brook University professor is launching a small pilot study of H2 water’s effect on chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). He reported:

“I first heard about hydrogen as a potential treatment for chronic conditions at a talk given by a highly regarded neurologist at Stony Brook medical school. As he summed up the scientific literature on the therapeutic uses of hydrogen, I got enthused about its potential in ME/CFS and have started a new treatment study with hydrogen.

Based on this literature and consultation with the neurologist who gave the talk on hydrogen, I’ve started a 6-week controlled pilot trial of hydrogen treatment, funded by my institution.

We hope to enroll 25 volunteers. All study activities are done at home. There are no in-person visits. People can call the number on the ad or send an email to us (also below). The hydrogen is in pill form (OTC supplement) that is dissolved in water. The study will be open to enrollment until we have 25-30 people enrolled.

If you’d like to volunteer or get more information, feel free to call 631-638-0056 or email to: FatigueMECFS@stonybrookmedicine.edu”
Click to expand...

via healthrising
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...water-chronic-fatigue-fibromyalgia-friedberg/
 
Hmm. From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_water:
There is no scientific consensus that hydrogen water has any health benefits in humans.[5] Hydrogen water proponents claim it has health benefits such as functioning as an antioxidant, reducing inflammation, reducing risk of metabolic syndrome, providing neuroprotection for various diseases, and reducing side effects associated with cancer radiation treatment.[1][6][7][8][2][3][4] Very little work has been done in animals. A few articles have been published on the topic, but the clinical literature is sparse and what has been published covers many conditions, but not multiple trials of any one condition.[1][6][7][8][2][3][4] None of these articles are systematic reviews or meta-analyses.
Click to expand...
I wonder what outcome measurements the study uses, especially if they're going to focus on brain fog. By "controlled pilot trial", do they mean that there will be a placebo group? Seems essential given the woo-woo claims for hydrogen rich water.

But at least it should be a harmless supplement to try.
 
From Wikipedia:
Hydrogen water is made by dissolving gaseous molecular hydrogen into water under pressure, typically 7.0 mg per liter of water. Alternative means of hydrogen administration are by inhalation of a gas containing up to 4.6% hydrogen, by intravenous injection with a hydrogen-containing saline solution, or by topical application (to the skin).
Click to expand...
So how is it stored in pills? And if you dissolve them to water, surely the H2 would just bubble quickly to the surface and be lost in the air.

From Healthline:
If you’d like to try hydrogen water, experts suggest purchasing products in non-permeable containers and drinking the water quickly to obtain maximum benefits.

There’s a lot of buzz surrounding this beverage — but until more research is conducted, it’s best to take the purported health benefits with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

The pills cost a lot.
 
As he summed up the scientific literature on the therapeutic uses of hydrogen, I got enthused about its potential...

When researchers get enthused about the potential of a novel idea/treatment, I get nervous.
 
Last edited:
I'm looking forward to read this study when it's over. For now I'm very skeptical.
"Oh, so you have ME? Here, drink some water and become much better or cure it."
That has been my dream last 4 years!
 
Without some special explanation as to why this does actually make sense when anyone who has done chemistry at school is likely to think it doesn't, I have to assume it is pseudoscience.

As far as I know we all generate our own hydrogen in quite considerable amounts - as one of the major constituents of flatus. It is said that medical students used to test this by lighting each other's farts.

Molecular hydrogen is fairly insoluble in water except under high pressure. It is also fairly inert under biological conditions as far as I know. I cannot think of any way to tore molecular hydrogen in a solid pill.

It would be intriguing to know if it really is possible.
 
So it’s possibly not going to cause physical harm to those who rush to try it for themselves but as usual it will definitely damage their budgets. I find myself unable to summon any enthusiasm at all. Presumably one day someone is going to have some kind of genui breakthrough but I’m far to cynical to go for this. All I can hear in my head is magic water........

eta tweaked after seeing Wonkos subsequent post - concern that harmful effects may not be being looked for.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't be so sure it's not harmful.

Gases dissolved in water can change the pH (acidity), CO2 dissolved in water is supposed to have changed the pH enough to cause problems for marine life, fish, plankton, reefs etc.

At least according to odd bits that have come up over the years, it's not just temperature causing problems for water borne life.

I have no idea what effect an extra 7% hydrogen in water would have, but that's significantly more than the percentage of squash I add to water and that makes a big difference ;)

...and at the end of the day, if it wasn't thought to do something, something that had a noticeable effect, then why bother - is anyone looking at the negative side of the coin.
 
I just wanted to add that we may be hearing more about Mitofusin-2 (MFN-2) in the future. Recall that Dr Davis mentioned a "sepsis-like" condition :

Regarding H2, Study in mice :

Enhancement of mitochondrial physiological function prevents sepsis-induced dysfunction. The present study aimed to elucidate the mechanism by which hydrogen (H2) affects mitochondrial function in a wild-type (WT) and homozygous nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) knockout (KO, Nrf2-/-) murine model of sepsis. In myocardial tissues with severe sepsis, H2 gas treatment reduced mitochondrial dysfunction, whereas zinc protoporphyrin (ZnPPIX) negated these beneficial effects. H2 treatment upregulated the protein expression of mitofusin-2 (Mfn2), peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator-1α (PGC-1α), and protein heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1) in WT mice with severe sepsis but not in their Nrf2-/- counterparts, and this upregulation was inhibited in the presence of ZnPPIX
Click to expand...



From another study, H2 in Lung Injury. I assume that MMP is Mitochondrial membrane Potential :


RESULTS:
Therapy with 2% H2 increased PaO2/FiO2 ratios, MMP and ATP levels, RCR, complex I activity and MFN2 expression but decreased histological score and Drp1 levels in the presence of sepsis. These data indicated that inhalation of 2% H2 to regulate mitochondrial function and dynamics may be a promising therapeutic strategy for lung injuries induced by severe sepsis.
Click to expand...

There are also a number of posts in PR about MFN-2 as early as 2013.
 
mariovitali said:
I just wanted to add that we may be hearing more about Mitofusin-2 (MFN-2) in the future. Recall that Dr Davis mentioned a "sepsis-like" condition :

Regarding H2, Study in mice :





From another study, H2 in Lung Injury. I assume that MMP is Mitochondrial membrane Potential :




There are also a number of posts in PR about MFN-2 as early as 2013.
Click to expand...
And not unrelated to mitochondrial fusion, Interesting.

On another note, I can't help but wonder... if you take an H2 pill form and it really does work, is that creating a lot of bloating in the digestive track?
 
Biofeedback and Hydrogen Water as Treatments for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Detailed Description:
The aim of this 10-week pilot study is to explore the potential benefit of two recently developed non-invasive interventions, heart rate variability biofeedback (HRV-BF) and over the counter (OTC) supplement hydrogen water, for the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). Symptom measures and heart monitoring information will be generated by this study. Given the lack of effective treatments in this illness, these two non-invasive home-based treatments may help patients feel and function better.

Participants will be randomized to one of the three study condition, HRV-BF alone, hydrogen water alone or combined HRV-BF and hydrogen water. All interventions are home-based with no in person visits. All communications with participants will be via virtual call, phone call, email and land mail.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05397626?recrs=abdf&cond=ME/CFS&draw=3&rank=10
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom