Increased hunger during PEM crash

forestglip

forestglip

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Staff member
I get much more hungry during crashes. Not sure if it's anxious eating, since my anxiety also increases, or related to some mechanism of ME.

I have been averaging around 2000 calories for a few weeks. I'm in a crash now from some intense computer focus sessions the past few days, and I'm at 3200 calories for today. Was craving potato chips so bad I had to drive to the store just to buy them.

Anyone else experience this?
 
I tend to be more in the having trouble eating or eating enough category when I’m bad. When appetite and ability to eat returns it’s generally a good sign for me. I definitely notice an impact on mood too though.
Hope you uncrash soon and the potato chips were good :)
 
It is not uncommon for me in PEM to have both nausea and hunger pangs. I both want to eat and don’t want to eat at the same time. Definitely not fun.

I am never sure at such times if it is normal hunger because I am likely to be struggling to prepare or get any food or if it is PEM related as like @Wyva I am craving sugar and carbohydrates. If I have them in the house I am likely to end up eating chocolate or cake and biscuits instead of getting a real meal.
 
I have no idea about males, but in females hormones can play a significant role in feeling hungry - linked to estrogen.
There's some research linked to menopause where this can become more acute.

My daughter has no appetite at all , apart from the week prior to her period when she is ravenous as estrogen reduces.
Perhaps it plays a part .ETA estradiols affect appetite in energy reduced states ( in mice)
 
Peter Trewhitt said:
It is not uncommon for me in PEM to have both nausea and hunger pangs. I both want to eat and don’t want to eat at the same time.
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Yes i relate to this. It is the weirdest thing. It also depends and is very changeable, sometimes I feel nauseated, feel i couldnt eat a thing and am sometimes sick (especially if i have to 'push through' to get to bathroom or something), but, while I'm lying still, sometimes it can be only a few minutes later I'll have a strong drive/craving for food - sugar in particular.

It is bizarre. I always assumed that the urge for suagr was a psych thing - i do comfort eat.

I am also extremely thirsty during PEM, excessively so. Cold drinks like diet 7up with ice in, or Morrisons sugar free peach squash, really cold... its like nectar, intensely satisfying, but only for a short while, then thirsty again - easily go through 3-4litres a day while in PEM. Occasionally though I do lose the thirst, no hunger no thirst, but thats not typical.

What i notice most is a dysregulated appetite, i either have none & am happy to not eat all day - especially during an 'adrenaline rush', or my entire being is crying out for food, body & mind asking for food food more & more food, until i get really bad & am throwing up when it goes to nausea & cravings alternating.
 
It's mainly carb cravings for me, but mainly starches like bread and potatoes. I don't really crave simple sugar foods like candy, fruit, or sugary drinks. I would think if it's about a physiological need to fuel some energy intensive process, I would crave the easy and fast energy source?
 
forestglip said:
It's mainly carb cravings for me, but mainly starches like bread and potatoes. I don't really crave simple sugar foods like candy, fruit, or sugary drinks. I would think if it's about a physiological need to fuel some energy intensive process, I would crave the easy and fast energy source?
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Yes simple sugar for immediate energy. But it may be your body is trying to balance or level something out. Also starchy carbs, still provide quick release energy and are more easily digested when compared to proteins and fats. Also starch is anxiety calming, sedating helps sleep which might speed recovery.
 
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forestglip said:
I get much more hungry during crashes. Not sure if it's anxious eating, since my anxiety also increases, or related to some mechanism of ME.

I have been averaging around 2000 calories for a few weeks. I'm in a crash now from some intense computer focus sessions the past few days, and I'm at 3200 calories for today. Was craving potato chips so bad I had to drive to the store just to buy them.

Anyone else experience this?
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I don’t think so but can’t really think that far back without taking a bit of time to do so in detail (ME is always not straightforward).

firstly my crashes tend to be me ‘carking out’ completely so it’s more like the ‘sleeping beauty’ illness programmes I saw years ago where when you are only awake and able to move for a few hours whether you are hungry or not you know you need to make the most of them eating wise because of weight and health.

when I was less ill and working then it was as I was in a long deterioration that things dropped because I was too exhausted by the time my break from obligations came to eat as much. And it only takes a bit of a drop across all meals and appetite when you have them and it starts to show.

on the other hand when I’m ’pushing It’ ie trying to push the boundaries where it more like I was holding off PEM by staying slightly over threshold (then when the adrenaline stops the crash hits and is long the longer you’ve done that for) then I had to have continual sugar - even sweets by my bed for when I woke up,

so there’s probably a big difference on what I was eating. And years ago when today’s description of me it was barn door what I had but it was all badly described then couched in behavioural stuff … well you can add caffeine to that too. It was basically ore about propping up body keeping upright with little and often

agree i think you do notice that things like fruit and veg that I normally do very much need go by the wayside not just because of the energy to eat (and digestion, nausea gif some things but not other ‘simple stuff that won’t lay on stomach) vs what you get but also accessibility - though I try and keep fruit to hand.

I relate very much to @JemPD ’s post
 
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I was just making lunch and realised just how incredibly hungry I was - form long before lunch time - very loud rumbling, which i rarely have!

I am currently battling regular exhaustion, PEM and ptsd - the combination of which has made my ADHD sooo much worse and I am absolutely ravenous currently, which made me think about this thread, as I know I read it recently. So, yes, another vote for "PEM makes me really hungry"

I am not sure if I crave protein, or I just find eggs on toast for lunch is enough to make me feel full? (temporarily) I also had a strong urge for biscuits yesterday so another vote for carbs/sugar cravings.

JemPD said:
I am also extremely thirsty during PEM, excessively so. Cold drinks like diet 7up with ice in, or Morrisons sugar free peach squash, really cold... its like nectar, intensely satisfying, but only for a short while, then thirsty again - easily go through 3-4litres a day while in PEM. Occasionally though I do lose the thirst, no hunger no thirst, but thats not typical.
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I also had this recently - I just could not drink enough water - also really cold. I would drink a pint of it and think "that's better" and immediately realise that it wasn't - I was still thirsty. I possibly should have balanced it with electrolytes as I felt quite...odd, until I ate something.

Does this add to or point to known hypothesis about what is going awry in ME and/or PEM?
 
Definitely PEM and hunger are related for me and rubbish food is what I crave. Once in a while, maybe once a month at the most, I give in to it and just eat biscuits and chocolate from mid afternoon. I don't feel great the same day but, without fail, every time I do this I wake up feeling surprisingly healthy and normal the next morning and the PEM has completey gone. I hate to think what it does to me but I suppose it won't hurt to do it infrequently.
 
I've said a couple times that my main craving when I have PEM is for chips (I think that's crisps for the Brits). I'm starting to wonder if the craving is really for salt since they are one of the saltiest foods I can think of.

Last night I was really craving chips (specifically tortilla chips because I have one bag of these I'm trying to resist eating). To try to eat something a bit healthier, I instead microwaved a pound of potatoes, and was too tired to cut them to put any salt on. After eating them, I still really wanted the chips.

I then drank 9 grams of iodized salt mixed in some water, and for the most part I wasn't really craving them anymore.

It's possible there was just some delay after eating the potatoes that the craving went away. Will keep testing.
 
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@forestglip

A good alternative is popping your own popcorn. It doesn't take too much energy to make. It also contains tryptophan and sometimes I fall asleep with my hand still in the bowl.

I add sea salt and nutritional yeast. Nutritional yeast tastes salty and has a cheese flavour so it hits the spot.
 
forestglip said:
I've said a couple times that my main craving when I have PEM is for chips (I think that's crisps for the Brits). I'm starting to wonder if the craving is really for salt since they are one of the saltiest foods I can think of.

Last night I was really craving chips (specifically tortilla chips because I have one bag of these I'm trying to resist eating). To try to eat something a bit healthier, I instead microwaved a pound of potatoes, and was too tired to cut them to put any salt on. After eating them, I still really wanted the chips.

I then drank 9 grams of iodized salt mixed in some water, and for the most part I wasn't really craving them anymore.

It's possible there was just some delay after eating the potatoes that the craving went away. Will keep testing.
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I am also a potato craver haha.

Have you tried oven fries? Do not take that long to prepare and easy.
 
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