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Let’s end the stigma of psychosomatic illness The Times (London) 22/04/2021

Discussion in 'Other psychosomatic news and research' started by JohnTheJack, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Column (paywalled) by James Marriott in The Times.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lets-end-the-stigma-of-psychosomatic-illness-whfdlwhph

    Anyone know whether that 'a third of outpatients...' is right? Or where it's from? @dave30th perhaps?

    I think the article shows what we're up against on this. I think Marriott is a decent guy and I generally like his columns. He is (like many journalists) an arts graduate. He reads about this subject as someone trying to be humane and understanding. The facts as presented seem convincing, he wants to be empathetic, so he buys the whole argument.
     
  2. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Jon Stone and Suzanne O'Sullivan... I wonder where I've seen those names before?
     
  3. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Got it! It's from here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(98)08320-2/fulltext

    That's about a third, and Sharpe so loves his rules of thirds.

    I say Sharpe, but this has got SMC/W3ss3ly written all over it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nah. It's not a valid construct so actually let's end it altogether. The people behind this are not serious and make absurd claims and assertions without any evidence whatsoever. And they have to use blatant lies such as asserting, without evidence, that 1/3 of patients have psychosomatic illness because of the simple algorithm where a cause must be easy to identify otherwise it's psychosomatic. This is not even close to be a valid process.

    If anything, safeguards need to be implemented ASAP to prevent this nonsense from doing more harm. If they want it to be official, rather than off the record as it currently mostly is, then due process is needed, which is obviously not possible here.

    And then there's stuff like this:
    "Culture" does not demand that. Medicine does. Quit making stuff up.
     
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This looked so bizarre I had to at least glance at the paper. Technically somatic means body, hence physical, but they are playing loose with terminology and mean functional somatic syndromes, but then use the term somatic. They also fail to be clear that diabetes is a functional syndrome in large part, as the functions involving sugar, fat and hormone issues are disturbed. I also noticed that PMS has snuck back in after failing to get its own DSM diagnostic code (unless it happened and I did not notice). What is the point of diagnoses if you add anything you want without evidence?

    Functional somatic syndromes, or just functional syndromes, should be treated with respect, including respecting that we have basically admitted we don't know what they are. If history serves as a guide, most or all will turn out to be literal somatic diseases we just don't understand yet.
     
  6. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The idea that resistance to psychosomatic explanations for illness is due to stigma and not any legitimate reasons is such a typical argument by proponents of psychosomatic explanations.

    As if it's only people not wanting to admit that their illness is caused by emotions, and nobody disbelieves in this idea because it doesn't make sense, has no scientific basis and is historically speaking, a serial failure.

    It's also annoying how "psychosomatic" de facto just means unexplained.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Right, a great many object to the diagnoses, and the lack of good science, not the patients having problems and needing help.
     
  8. JES

    JES Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well, he is correct that functional illnesses, the way almost everything not known gets included in that group today, are certainly physical. He is also right that suffering from these, whatever trendy label you choose to give them, conditions are the next taboo, most doctors and people these days treat mental illness with higher level of understanding. He is also correct that a disease label and preferably proof of biological cause will buy you respect in the doctor's office. I can't read the full post, but I assume it would at some point advocate for BPS treatment approaches, etc. I'm feeling kind today so I'll give him some benefit of doubt.
     
  9. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Bingo!
     
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am not sure that that would be the source (if there really is one) since the paper talks specifically of neurological and gastroenterological outpatients. The proportion of patients presenting with symptoms for which doctors cannot find a clear explanation is higher in those two specialities than in most other s(e.g. rheumatology).
     
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  11. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I know I know - they did also mention that they were US estimates - but I'm sure I've seen/heard SW or MS say something similar (involving thirds) recently - and these things tend to go round in self-reinforcing (vicious) circles.

    Aha - here's neurology: https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/68/2/207 - cited by Stone here: https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/76/suppl_1/i2
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  12. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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  13. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Might be worth asking BBC Radio 4 "More or Less" (not sure when the next series is) they run a statistical fact checker - facts which are in the media and whether they're accurate.
     
  14. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep. They just make up this shit to suit their narrative. Shadow boxing at a foe who isn't there.

    Unfortunately it works.
     
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  15. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The sole purpose of the Spectator is to generate hate. :(
     
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  16. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The irony is that it isn't society in general that has such prejudice (that causes stigma), it is a subgroup of medical practitioners that perpetuates it.
     
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  17. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I finally got a thread written on Twitter to send him and his account has been deleted. Did he get a bit of a pounding on there after the article?
     
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  18. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From the Interview, the quote was:
    From the talk, he said (about outcomes of Long Covid):
    I don't think maths is his strong point.
     
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  20. RoseE

    RoseE Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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