Magnesium

[Kitty]

Oral magnesium definitely affects me: muscle pain that has me staggering round the bedroom trying to find a way to get rid of it.

I've tried several sorts of magnesium over the years, because I'd either forgotten it was a supplement caused the screeching muscle pain or which supplement it was, and because I'm a halfwit.

 

[RedFox]

Does anyone have any thoughts on pico- and nano-magnesium in water, supposedly highly absorbable (orally) directly into the bloodstream and into cells through the mucosa because of their small size, such as this stuff and this stuff?

Seems like quackery. There's many forms of magnesium with high solubility in water and thus high bioavailability.

 

[Arnie Pye]

I have reason to think that I can't absorb magnesium very well through the gut and so the ordinary stuff isn't going to help me much (and hasn't).

Have you tried magnesium oil? It isn't a true oil - it has no hydrocarbons in it. It is rubbed on the skin. It can be bought ready made or, with the right ingredients, people can make it themselves.

I have no idea how well the magnesium is absorbed from mag oil, but it does get mentioned quite often online.

https://themagnesiumperfection.com/introduction/make-your-own-magnesium-oil/

 

[Wits_End]

It does leave your skin quite sticky, though - but yes, it is supposed to be absorbed well that way.

 

[Sasha]

Have you tried magnesium oil? It isn't a true oil - it has no hydrocarbons in it. It is rubbed on the skin. It can be bought ready made or, with the right ingredients, people can make it themselves.

I have no idea how well the magnesium is absorbed from mag oil, but it does get mentioned quite often online.

https://themagnesiumperfection.com/introduction/make-your-own-magnesium-oil/

I've tried it but it seems to upset my skin and it didn't seem to have any noticeable effect on me otherwise, unfortunately.

 

[Mij]

@Sasha

You might find his experience interesting. He had his mg levels tested through EXA test which measures mg levels in the cell and not RBC. He shares his results before and after taking mg supplements based on his low mg status. He also lists the supplements he took to bring his levels back up. It's pretty good.

https://www.livingwithatrialfibrillation.com/1523/magnesium-exa-test-results/

 

[Sasha]

@Sasha

You might find his experience interesting. He had his mg levels tested through EXA test which measures mg levels in the cell and not RBC. He shares his results before and after taking mg supplements based on his low mg status. He also lists the supplements he took to bring his levels back up. It's pretty good.

https://www.livingwithatrialfibrillation.com/1523/magnesium-exa-test-results/

Thanks, Mij. I seem to have read it a bit differently to you, though - my understanding is that he's saying that he took what he thought is a rubbish test of Mg levels (the serum test) after supplementing that showed his levels as normal but when he did what he considers a more accurate test, it showed him as deficient. So I think he's just saying that, despite supplementing with Mg, he thinks that he's deficient and that he's planning to try different supplements, including Remag (the 'pico' one).

I've read this notion before, that a serum test is useless because your body will raid your bones to keep serum levels of Mg where they should be. @Jonathan Edwards, is that true or just folklore? I keep getting normal (serum) Mg blood test results back but I wonder if they mean anything. I don't think that other tests are available in the UK.

 

[Sasha]

Here's an example of a legit paper that talks about the problems of determining Mg status using various tests...

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I've read this notion before, that a serum test is useless because your body will raid your bones to keep serum levels of Mg where they should be. @Jonathan Edwards, is that true or just folklore? I keep getting normal (serum) Mg blood test results back but I wonder if they mean anything. I don't think that other tests are available in the UK.

I believe it is true that most of your magnesium is not in the blood, but I am sceptical that this means that blood tests are no use. A lot of your calcium is in your bones but blood tests are still useful. The NHS will make use of whatever is the most useful test. I think it very unlikely that you need anything terribly expensive to measure intracellular magnesium if that were the most useful.

The story of the guy getting a special test for $700 sounds like a quack rip-off.

I don't see any good reason to think anyone with ME eating a reasonably normal diet should be short of magnesium. If it were a real problem someone would have written up some severe cases going ago.

 

[Mij]

I posted this chart earlier concerning testing results through Exa test 4 weeks before and after applying magnesium oil and foot soaks. This is the magnesium oil I use:
https://www.ancient-minerals.com/transdermal-magnesium/

The chart in the link above indicates a drop in calcium which is what I experienced after taking mg injections.

I was tested over 20 years ago (RBC magnesium) and my levels were in the 'low' range which indicated to the biochemist that I consulted with that I was deficient. I had breathlessness, leg stiffness and head rocking similar to a form of Parkinsonism. I had obvious symptoms that went away soon after taking mg sulfate injections. So I can conclude I was deficient.

I've been applying magnesium oil to maintain mg levels b/c I don't absorb supplements very well through the gut. That is only my experience and I'm continuing with what seems to work for me.

 

[Sasha]

I believe it is true that most of your magnesium is not in the blood, but I am sceptical that this means that blood tests are no use. A lot of your calcium is in your bones but blood tests are still useful. The NHS will make use of whatever is the most useful test. I think it very unlikely that you need anything terribly expensive to measure intracellular magnesium if that were the most useful.

The story of the guy getting a special test for $700 sounds like a quack rip-off.

I don't see any good reason to think anyone with ME eating a reasonably normal diet should be short of magnesium. If it were a real problem someone would have written up some severe cases going ago.

I think the claim is that people in general these days are eating a magnesium-deficient diet due to depleted minerals in soils, and that people with certain gut issues have problems absorbing magnesium through the gut. I don't think it would be an ME-specific problem necessarily, although I remember in the 80s having Mg (intramuscular?) injections because there was an idea that it could help PwME (though I can't remember why, after all this time).

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I think the claim is that people in general these days are eating a magnesium-deficient diet due to depleted minerals in soils, and that people with certain gut issues have problems absorbing magnesium through the gut.

That isn't credible to me, @Sasha. The main problem with soils these days is serious over-treatment with mineral fertilisers. And you can see the magnesium in food - it is what makes the leaves green!

Absorption through the gut may be impaired with chronic diarrhoea in serious cases of Crohn's perhaps but again it otherwise seems very unlikely to be relevant.

 

[RedFox]

I think the claim is that people in general these days are eating a magnesium-deficient diet due to depleted minerals in soils, and that people with certain gut issues have problems absorbing magnesium through the gut. I don't think it would be an ME-specific problem necessarily, although I remember in the 80s having Mg (intramuscular?) injections because there was an idea that it could help PwME (though I can't remember why, after all this time).

Magnesium is the 7th most common element in the Earth's crust, so I'm skeptical about soil depletion. However, diet is a big factor. For example, whole grains have a lot more Mg than refined grains. Even water supply has a small effect.

 

[Yan]

I realise that just about everyone is talking about magnesium deficiency when talking about magnesium, but what about hypermagnesemia?

I had a look on my older lab results and noticed that I had my serum magnesium checked twice 3 years ago 6 months apart. The reference scale used was 0.71 - 0.94 mmol/l and my first result was 0.99 mmol/l and second was 1.04 mmol/l. Both are considered as mild hypermagnesemia, although the latter one is almost on the moderate side. It also seems that mild is usually seen as unsymptomatic so that's probably why mine wasn't looked closer at the time. I do also understand that measuring magnesium from the blood is considered as little unreliable.

I'm wondering if being continually on the higher side on the magnesium scale could worsen symptoms when having magnesium rich meals. Similar for high carbohydrate meals leading to hyperglycaemia and causing symptoms for some. As for myself, I've noticed that eating nuts and seeds, which are very high on magnesium, often makes me nauseous and tired. And obviously I'm not supplementing on magnesium.

Could it be a problem for people for example on vegetarian diets who are getting their protein intake from high magnesium sources?