NHS England Launches New E-learning Module on ME/CFS, 2024

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS news' started by John Mac, May 21, 2024.

  1. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    What I see under the article is the entire set - or at least was far s it has got. Module 2 comes in after the introduction and stuff about causes etc. It focuses on management and manages to say nothing much while appearing to justify the involvement of a team of people doing nothing much. A number of suggestions are inappropriate, such as eating salt or giving fludrocortisone, or trying acupuncture etc.

    The whole thing to me is typical of 'professions allied to medicine' teaching materials although much of the content can only really apply to GPs (diagnosis, referring, prescribing). It would drive me mad if I was a GP because there are no facts on which to judge what the recommendations will amount to in practice (e.g. 'early intervention' - earlier than what?).
     
    Hutan, Ash, bobbler and 10 others like this.
  2. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    Do we know who, if anyone, is still in a position to contribute to the audit of the modules? Do the working group still get drafts to see? It seems as if they do but are any members here involved - such as @adambeyoncelowe. It really needs a re-think. When we already have reasonably good guidance from NICE this seems to be entirely a backwards step.
     
    Hutan, Ash, Ariel and 12 others like this.
  3. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,923
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Some? Most?
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 9 others like this.
  4. Nightsong

    Nightsong Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    699
    A few more random observations on the module(s):

    * I don't think the paragraphs on FM are adequately supported either, and as to the idea that "[m]any consider fibromyalgia and ME/CFS as different points on the same spectrum of disease" - even if many people did think so that does not make it true.

    * Under the "stigma" section the phrase "[t]he inappropriate framing of ME/CFS as a disease of depressed menopausal women" is not a phrase I think should be in there. Certainly the effect of disbelief, denial and stigma could and should be explored, but more carefully than this.

    * "Cognitive rehabilitation techniques"... "Acupuncture.. yoga, or meditation... [t]he common goal of all of these is to improve vagal (parasympathetic tone)"... "compromised immune responses" - all of this stuff needs to be cut.

    * "The absence of universally accepted diagnostic criteria tailored to the paediatric population adds to the challenge" - that seems to undermine the NICE guideline.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 7 others like this.
  5. Joan Crawford

    Joan Crawford Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Warton, Carnforth, Lancs, UK
    I received the draft approx two weeks ago with 9am deadline today comments. I have not been involved in development of the modules.

    I've detailed many inaccurate, unhelpful and misleading issues. Plus I do not think it is helpful for primary care. I think it will be confusing and will do little to improve attitudes towards pwME. Education likely minimal.

    Minimal reference to NICE, PEM, exercise/activity etc. Linking to unhelpful advice re sleep, cognitive rehabilitation, pain etc. And so on. Long list. It doesn't read as though ME is understood well by the authors.

    I shared my detaled comments with NHS England and Dr S. Also, MEA and AfME.

    David's email BCCed in the recipients so I cannot see who received the draft to review. I presume it is the whole group of people involved in the working group for Attitudes and Education.

    Needs a rethink.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2024
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 14 others like this.
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 5 others like this.
  7. Joan Crawford

    Joan Crawford Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Warton, Carnforth, Lancs, UK
    Stephen Holgate and Nina Muirhead.
    Dr Shaun Peter Qureshi and Peter Barry Co chaired meetings too for the Attitudes and Education meetings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2024
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 10 others like this.
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    Do they not see that the project needs a fresh start?
    The material is inappropriate. It is full of ungrounded statements and gives no clear evidence based advice on how to actually make decisions.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 16 others like this.
  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    A question that occurs to me is why the modules are presented as if as lecture slides rather than normal text? Medical education is traditionally presented as prose text that allows one sentence to depend on another. I can understand why there might be question pages at the end of each section but I don't see why the material isn't ordinary prose.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 10 others like this.
  10. Joan Crawford

    Joan Crawford Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    703
    Location:
    Warton, Carnforth, Lancs, UK
    I have forwarded my comments along with the slides to Stephen Holgate, Nina Muirhead, Shaun Qureshi, Peter Barry and Willy Weir (who was also in the Attitudes & Education ME/CFS DHSC meetings). I have suggested a reset/restart to the process.

    I have a suspicion - and it's only that, that perhaps they are not in the loop as this is an NHS England initiative. And David sent out the slides for review by BCC so I was unable to see who else they went to.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 14 others like this.
  11. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    Thanks, @Joan Crawford.
    I also hope to talk to Sonya Chowdhury about it on Friday.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 13 others like this.
  12. Haveyoutriedyoga

    Haveyoutriedyoga Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    907
    Location:
    South West, UK
    Is there no formal requirement for transparency in this...endeavour?
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 8 others like this.
  13. bobbler

    bobbler Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,883
    yep this seems pretty dated cliches. Can't have come from the 2021 guidelines which I'd have thought would have been the starter.

    And to me some of these seem 'new' and possibly rather than 'debunking' are potentially going to put new myths out there by mentioning things that don't need to be brought up and putting ideas in people's heads by doing so that are perpetuating red herrings rather than aiding clarity.
     
    hotblack, Hutan, Ash and 8 others like this.
  14. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    15,296
    Location:
    London, UK
    hotblack, bobbler, Trish and 3 others like this.
  15. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    55,789
    Location:
    UK
    hotblack, Amw66, Ash and 3 others like this.

Share This Page